www.iFourWinns.com

For the Chevy 4.3, 5.0, 5.7 geared starters... YES
For Ford... NO
(edit: See Deafwish's comment about SAE J1171 below)


At least according to "Bill" at Riviera Beach Starter and Alternator.

Ray

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

The only thing in my starter changes I have noticed, is a gasket that goes between the starter and the solenoid, that I don't think is there on automotive versions but honestly I have not seen a real automotive Chevy starter in years! But both replacements had the gasket. I don't know if that is to keep vapors out, or what.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Yes, it looked like there was a bit of gasket sticking out where the solenoid attaches. See the picture of the new starter I posted.

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Yep I see it there. Next time I may try the smaller lighter one.

PS, one thing I have learned that shortens starter life, besides water intrusion is low cranking voltage. This is why I'm always saying to use the best marine quality cables, at least 2 gauge for the short ones, of course bigger if your 2nd batt is on the other side of the engine compartment like mine. Good cables, real battery clamps NOT wingnuts, and clean engine grounds.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/97y7b927tdgll ... r.jpg?dl=0

Here's mine, this is the MES I put in in '07. Now I use OMC gasket sealer on that manifold drain lol. I may start looking round for a spare one this summer...
See why I keep this boat, its really pretty easy to work on. No molded in 'glass in the middle of my way.
The batt cables you can see, the thinner ones are 2 gauge for the batt that's on that side, the much thicker one is 1/0 gauge for the one on the other side. 9 feet long. The boat already has a slight list to the side with the starter and batt switch so I had to put the 2nd one on the other side.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Every Marine Starter should have the SAE J1171 approval for marine use.
If not, you risk potential insurance issues & worst case - an explosion.
Not to dissimilar to using an auto' air filter in place of your Coast Guard Approved Flame Arrestor!

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

I've never had to replace a starter on a boat, so I've never really looked at how they are bolted on. Done loads on European cars over the years. From the photo, the boat ones seem to be bolted on to the engine using "vertical" bolts , rather than to the bellhousing using "horizontal"l bolts. Why ? The latter makes it much easier and the accuracy of location is just as good.

Only GM knows the answer to that Graham, I know Ford starters are different in that they go into the bell housing. So for a Chevy starter, you have to reach up to the very rear of the engine block to get those bolts (9/16ths if I recall right) out. While holding up the starter. Unless you put a 2x4 across the gunnels, and tie a line from there, to around the starter to hold it up. I'm still strong enough to not have to do it that way, but its a good trick to know...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Hi Lou,

I guess it's the way it's always been done ( from the origins of the GM V8 in what, something like 1954 or so ?

Big disappointment with the D4/ DPH; I no longer need my Imperial AF spanners and sockets !

Ed Cole's small block classic design that has powered millions of family cars, police cars, taxis, hot rods, boats etc was born in 1955 as a 265 cu in V8. It later grew to 283, 327, 350, and in the early 70s, a nice round 400 cubic inches (bored and stroked as far as it could go). There was as special 302 cu in version made for the Z/28 Camaro in Trans Am racing from 68-70, the rules required that the racing cars used engines available to the public. At the time GM sold it in 307 cu in (slightly too big) so they made a special version just for that car. 290 hp out of 302 cu in. It was a great package.
We had several of them over the years. I found my old school American V8s, no matter who made them, Ford, GM or Chrysler to be very reliable and long lived.
I still have my 'imperial' or SAE as we say here tools, because the engine fittings on my older Jeep uses them (4.0 AMC designed six) but the body work fittings are all metric. The boat is all SAE. My newer Jeep, all metric.
I still use my tach/dwell meter (boat has points and condenser) and a timing light (dist has centrifugal advance) and I have a crowfoot distributor adjusting wrench, one end is for Chevrolet (9/16ths) and the other end is Ford (1/2) antique tools lol.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Good bit of history there, LouC!
I'd love to get the opportunity to have bought Ed Cole a beer!

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

I've spent half the morning looking this up. I agree with you on the SAE J1171, but most all the "Marine Starters" on-line have no mention of being SAE J1171. Not from ebasicpower.com Not from iboats.com Not from Ebay sources such as rareelectricalparts. Many do not even have the black coating, and many do.

I'm still debating if I should return the starter I bought and order Volvo Penta brand Starter for $275 from marinepartsexpress (or $300 from volvopentastore.com)?

ps. I just weighed the small "Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction" (PMGR) starter. It is only 8 lbs! Nice change compared with the old heavy starter from the 50's through 80's

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Both the MES and the Sierra ones I bought had a sticker saying "Marine" on them, don't recall if it said meeting that standard or not but the sticker was on it, you can see it in my pic right on the top of the solenoid.
You don't need to spend that much for a VP one, the Sierra and the MES ones I got were in the range of 150-175 or so. Both worked fine.
I did some reading about the lighter permanent magnet units and the concern with some of them is that some of the reduction gears are plastic, this was discussed on the baylinerownersclub.org site. Not sure if anyone makes one with all metal gears.
I'd see if you can order an ARCO or Sierra from a local marine store, I don't think MES is still around....

http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Pages%2 ... arters.pdf

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

My SAE J1171 rated starter was not painted (looked zinc coated?) and I used a VHT black manifold paint, prior to fitting it.
The SAE J1171 rating should be stamped/ engraved on the top of the starter. Look hard, as it can be small.
High torque electric motors can create quite a spark = fail in a bilge!

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

And seein as we all are worried about the fume issue; how many of you have installed a gas vapor detector? I have and I asways sniff but every gas boat should have one...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Follow up:
I inquired with my local Starter Alternator shop again Friday for proof that the starter I bought was a marine certified starter. He printed out the page from the manufacturer's web site here, that does show SAE J1171 certified:
http://www.waiglobal.com/partsearch.html and search 6792BN
He also gave me the "SAE J1171 Marine" sticker to put on it.
This unit is also available on Amazon for $117:
http://www.amazon.com/Starter-Mercury-50-807904A1-50-863007A1-3860566-3/dp/B00CBEXOR4

So I agree with deafwish that you should make sure your starter specifies J1171 when purchasing, because many companies are selling "marine starters" or equivalents to the Volvo Penta and Mercruiser Part numbers that are not J1171.

So we installed the starter on Saturday. I had to enlist the help of my friend George to do the contortionist work. He is quite good at working in small spaces. Hurts my back just to watch him.


Laying in the engine compartment with the sunsport seating still in

Looks like we cut his legs off to fit him in there

Ray

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings