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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 4:31 pm
Posts: 873
Location: Minneapolis, MN
It could be difficult to say whether a boat sits high enough because there are many variables such as boat load, beached, wave height, speed, angle, and water depth. What works in a no wake zone on a small lake might not work in rougher seas.

There are at least 4 exhaust bellows configurations. One VP bellows has small drain holes, one has slots, one is just a straight hose to connect the transom shield to the outdrive when the drive is trimmed down, and some outdrives are run with no exhaust hose or bellows.

The OMC SX, Volvo Penta SX and DP-SM, and many other drives also have an exhaust port on bottom of transom shield which is partially covered by the transom shield's anode. I had a '95 190 Horizon that "lost" a flapper valve. The flapper blocked most of the exhaust flow out through the prop. The exhaust port on the bottom of the transom shield was enough to allow partial power, but it significantly limited the engine's full power out put. That was a couple warranty trips to the dealer shop and a 45 minute call to Four Winns...... I do agree with Lou that they are a good thing to have.

Beaching or a boat with a heavy load in back may increase the possibility of getting water in the cylinders.

"Backfire" is burning fuel in the intake and back through the carb or throttle body, and does not mean that the engine ran backwards. "Dieseling" or "run on" usually means that the engine does not shut of cleanly. The engine continues to fire on maybe one or two cylinders and run somewhat after the ignition is turned off. This can be due to an alternate "ignition source" like a piece of hot carbon in a cylinder, high compression ratio, tuning issues, etc. While the engine is "running on" at rpms less than normal idle, one cylinder will fire early enough to cause the engine to rotate backwards for a bit before stopping. This is what sucks water from the exhaust system back in to the cylinders.

To check water level, you may be able to run a hose (maybe 1/4 " I.D.) from the lake behind the boat over the floor and into the engine room in to an aquarium vacuum or other similar container. Hold the larger diameter tube of the aquarium vacuum with the open end up and apply suction to fill the hose and part of the larger tube or container Ensure there are no air bubbles in the hose and larger tube. Hold the tube up beside the exhaust manifolds to compare water level to manifold height.

Hope this helps.

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Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:10 pm
Posts: 2032
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Surface Interval wrote:
Backfire" is burning fuel in the intake and back through the carb or throttle body, and does not mean that the engine ran backwards. "Dieseling" or "run on" usually means that the engine does not shut of cleanly. The engine continues to fire on maybe one or two cylinders and run somewhat after the ignition is turned off. This can be due to an alternate "ignition source" like a piece of hot carbon in a cylinder, high compression ratio, tuning issues, etc. While the engine is "running on" at rpms less than normal idle, one cylinder will fire early enough to cause the engine to rotate backwards for a bit before stopping. This is what sucks water from the exhaust system back in to the cylinders.

I agree with your definitions and explanation here. I hesitated to say "dieseling in reverse" since that is technically not possible (there is no burnable fuel/air mixture that can be obtained from the exhaust manifold). However, "dieseling" (run-on) which ends with a kick back and turns the engine reverse direction for a turn or so will create a vacuum in the exhaust...which could cause or help cause a hydrolock.

The only time I had my current engine "run-on" was when I went from cruising to a stop quickly and shut off the engine to observe some dolphins. The engine ran-on, so I turned the ignition back on right away...let it idle for about 10 seconds...then shut off again. That time it shut down properly.

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 1303
Location: Melbourne, Australia
rpengr wrote:
The only time I had my current engine "run-on" was when I went from cruising to a stop quickly and shut off the engine to observe some dolphins. The engine ran-on, so I turned the ignition back on right away...let it idle for about 10 seconds...then shut off again. That time it shut down properly.


If you had a carburetted engine, this would've scared the sh1t out of those dolphins! :lol:
We call this a 'Key Banger'! :lol: 8)

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2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:04 pm 
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Guppy

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for your help guys ! I just had a telephone conversation with the Volvo penta guys in Vancouver BC. They advised that being anchored for and aft especially aft in big wake waves would certainly contribute to my hydra lock problem as the stern would not rise with the wave but stay down forcing water higher up the exhaust pipes. AS you said Lou. Also exhaust only comes out of the props when you are underway, not when you are stopped at idle where it bubbles up next to the transom. This means that there is more than one way for water to enter the exhaust bellows and into the exhaust pipes when you are at anchor with the engine off. Also they advised that water can be forced into the outdrive a lot easier under those anchor and wave conditions with the outdrive up. Many boaters have experienced hydralock launching there boats too quickly into the water with their outdrives up. Thanks rpengr for the excellent pic of your VP GS engine (same as mine). I do as much work on mine as I can including changing the impeller while the boat is in the water. I changed out the 4 impeller housing screws to hex type which makes the job a lot easier


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:31 pm 
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Guppy

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Posts: 7
I forgot to say that from now on my drive stays down when I am at anchor !


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5664
Location: Long Island NY
Thanks for the feedback. Its good for people to know that they should not anchor from the stern and to keep the drive down if they can. FWIW, I have moored my boat on a rotating mooring for 12 years with and the drive has to be up because at low tide my mooring spot is from 3-4 feet deep, to shallow too leave it down. And in all those years it has never hydrolocked because the stern is free to move and the bow is always to the wind and waves.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
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2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
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1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:32 am 
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Guppy

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Posts: 7
Yes when I single anchor into the wind I don,t have a problem either . I double anchor when the wind is very strong and the boat acts like a Williams wobbler on the end of my fishing line also I do what others are doing around me so I don,t swing and hit them. The serious thing about hydra lock is that when you try to start if the engine fires and tries to turn over you can easily bend a rod . I was lucky the 1st time it happened as I did not know about hydra lock I kept trying to start when the starter broke a tooth off the ring gear on the flywheel and the starter was not catching anymore. When you try to start against the water in the cylinder you feel that your batteries are dying and that's when you should pull the plugs turn the engine over and over to pump out the water , then dry the plugs and reinstall them and then turn the engine over till you start. Keeping tools in your boat and spare plugs is always a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
soggydawg wrote:
The serious thing about hydra lock is that when you try to start if the engine fires and tries to turn over you can easily bend a rod.


You'd be pretty unlucky to bend a rod during startup!
Far higher chance of bending one if you hydro locked the engine at >2000RPM.

p.s. It's Hydro Lock, not Hydra Lock. :wink:

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2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:37 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
Air can be compressed, water can not...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Guppy

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Posts: 7
If you look up engine hydro lock on google you will see a nice picture of a bent connecting rod { caused by hydro lock} under Wikipedia. I would attach it here if I knew how .


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Agree whole-heartedly, just stating that it's unlikely to bend a rod by trying to turn over a stationary, hydro-locked engine.
Ingesting water through the intake and hydro-locking at 3500RPM? Your rods and many other components will likely be cactus! :lol:

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2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS


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 Post subject: Re: hydra lock
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:07 am 
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Guppy

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Posts: 7
Mechanic says that you can bend a rod. I was indeed lucky that the battery cranking power broke 2 cogs off the ring gear 1st. I have 3 batteries, 2 are house batteries and the 3rd is a 1000amp starter battery devoted to starting the engine. After he drained the cylinders (only 2 rear cylinders had water that poured out and only about a shot glass full in each) we got the engine started after much cranking. Then he told me to take the boat out for a high speed spin . He advised that if I noticed an apparent drop in power then I probably bent a rod as well. Again I was lucky as the engine power and speed were just fine. I am very sure that if my battery has the cranking power to bust 2 cogs off the flywheel ring gear then it can easily bend a rod that has the diameter of my little finger. Scary expensive stuff !


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