www.iFourWinns.com

You might also have an intake manifold starting to rust through. While they do not rust through as fast as manifolds and risers it can happen in salt water. That will put water right into the valley above the camshaft.
If your compression tests are normal, it could be that, or a cracked head. Hope it turns out to be an easy to fix thing. The manifold would probably be the easiest to fix....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Compression test was fine on all cylinders when they checked it. Is it at all usual to get a head gasket leak just between the water and oil channels?

I'm heading away on a 4 week trip to Europe (who needs money anyway...), so won't be able to do anything until I get back. Before I went away I did empty out the oil, then ran with cheap grade of oil until warm to flush out any contaminated oil, then refilled again with new oil (ran the new oil for only a couple of minutes). Hopefully that gets enough of the water out of the system for the weeks I'm away...

Ouch...

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2005 Sundowner 205

5.0L MPI Mercruiser, Bravo1, 3 blade Mirage SS prop

Thank LouC

I thought they replaced the Manifolds with the risers when they did the work... But I'll check when I get home again.

Oh just realised you said intake... Ok - thanks.

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2005 Sundowner 205

5.0L MPI Mercruiser, Bravo1, 3 blade Mirage SS prop

The sign of a bad head gasket from the comp test would be a low reading from 2 cylinders right next to each other but it can also blow in other ways, and let water in the engine. If you know for sure that the manifolds and risers are not leaking, and your comp tests are good, then its likely to be:
rusted/cracked intake
block/head either rusting through or cracked.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Well we just got back from our trip to Europe and thought I'd get back to my water-in-the-oil problem.

The oil I'd put in before heading away still looked clear (no water). I ran the engine for about 35min (on the garden hose) and the oil still looked good. Left it a couple of days and ran the engine again for 30mins and its still looking good. Oil still looks clear and there's no water vapour appearing under the oil filler cap after the engine cools down.

Fingers crossed, but maybe it was just some residual water in the bottom of the sump that the mechanic didn't flush out properly (I suspect that the mechanic used an oil pump to pump out the oil when they were flushing it, rather than using the drain hose off the bottom of the sump).

I'm hoping the fact that I drained the out the oil using the drain hose, has got the last of the water out. I do remember that when I opened the drain hose, water ran out for the first couple of seconds before the milky oil started flowing out...

Will check again in a day or two, but might be time for a run on the water... Hope I'm not being too optimistic.

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2005 Sundowner 205

5.0L MPI Mercruiser, Bravo1, 3 blade Mirage SS prop

Another future thing you can do is an oil analysis. There is a company here in the US called Blackstone Labs that does oil sample testing and they give a great report about any abnormal levels of all different types of wear particles, fuel dilution and water contamination. So next season run it maybe 10 hrs then take a sample with a clean vaccum pump and send it in. That will give you all you need to know. I did this recently to test how well the Merc 25/40 oil holds up vs Delo straight 40 I used to use and the Merc oil did indeed hold up better. I do have some higher than normal salt levels which is likely salt water intrusion could be a head gasket starting to seep or intake gaskets but in any case I am going to get a new crate engine within about 2 years or so. Then the OE one will have gone 30 yrs, even raw water cooled. New one will be closed cooled of course.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

If you are looking at $1000 extra for partial closed cooling, is it really an "of course"?

After all, I also got near 30 years from a raw water cooled engine used in salt. Most closed systems are only partial, so you still need to replace costly manifolds and risers, and those are the parts that end up ruining your engine if they fail.

I have no doubt that closed system is preferred, but how is it really worth the extra money on an old boat?
(especially for me in South Florida where we don't winterize)

Ray

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Just the ease of winterizing alone here is worth it. Even with the half system instead of crawling around and stretching to reach at least 4 drains and disconnect hoses I can hook up a winterizing tank with a live well pump to pressurize the flow and suck in 5 gallons of -100 marine AF.
Not having to drain, disconnect hoses and then back fill with AF will take nearly an hr off this task.
The fact is you can get 20 years plus with raw water cooling but if any mechanical engine repairs are needed the internal corrosion makes it difficult to take the heads off and internal corrosion causes gradual hotter running (this is especially true for those that don't fill with AF in winter). Closed cooling adds value and resale value to your boat. Most mechanics here will not even repair a salt cooled engine. Here an I/O is much easier to sell if it has closed cooling.
2 must haves for my new engine will be the closed cooling and a remote oil filter. Why spend the money? Well not having to remove the rear seats, strain to reach drains and disconnect hoses , move the port side battery back and jam myself in there to change the filter; and then having to put it all back together (wood bulkheads and seats) is well worth it to me and my lower back lol.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I agree on the oil remote and it was a must on my boat purchase 5 years ago. That oil filter change with limited access is a dreaded process. I can change the oil and filter in under ten minutes and everything is up top and at the fingertips.

The extra money on the closed cooling would be worth it too and wish I had it on my fresh water boat.

Not dropping the wrench or brass block plug would be worth the 1,000...that would easily add a year to your life.

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http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o71 ... wqm355.jpg


08' H210SS
VP 5.7Gi

OK, that's pretty convincing. Thanks.

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Looks like I might be OK.

Took it for a run and the oil went a "little" cloudy but much much better than last oil change. I changed the oil again.

Checked with the mechanic and they say the compression was tested and all was OK. They're pretty certain the original problem was that my elbows/risers were corroded enough to have let the water in (not the burnt flappers). They'd be very surprised if I had a cracked head or blown head gasket, but agreed that there may be something like a corroded intake manifold - but unlikely. Was asked to check the oil again after the next run and to keep an eye on it.

They also confirmed what I thought, that their oil changes (to try and flush out the hydrolysed oil) were done by sucking the oil out the top rather than using the bottom drain hose... So very likely to have had some residual water/oil at the bottom. The fact that I drained the oil out the bottom would probably do a better job of getting any residual oil out of the bottom.

Will continue to keep an eye on it and change/flush out oil regularly for a while.

Might have dodged a bullet. Will definitely change manifold/risers before 10yrs in the future.

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2005 Sundowner 205

5.0L MPI Mercruiser, Bravo1, 3 blade Mirage SS prop

Normally if you have water in the oil the water will be at the lowest point because it's more dense than oil. Are you using the garden hose adaptor or the drain hose that is attached to the oil pan? Either way it should be pulling from the bottom of the pan. On my OMC the tube goes all the way to the bottom of the pan.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Using the drain hose connected to the bottom of the pan.

As I'd lost the teathered hull drain plug (that pulls the oil drain hose out), the mechanics thought I didn't have a drain hose (apparently Mercruiser stopped fitting them about 10yrs ago I'm told).

Yeah, the first time I drained from this about 1or 2 oz of just water came out to start with. Also had to poke some wire up the tube to get the oil flowing. I've done 3 oil changes so far and it seems to be improving. Certainly not the chocolate brown milkshake I had before (I'm draining into clear plastic Coke bottles so I can tell if there's any water at the bottom).

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2005 Sundowner 205

5.0L MPI Mercruiser, Bravo1, 3 blade Mirage SS prop

Quick note to close this off...

I've had the boat out quite a few times now and also done a long cruise (5hrs) under speed/load. Oil is perfect. No water. Looks like I've dodged a bullet...

Lesson learned, replace (or at least check) risers/manifolds well before 9yrs of service (in salt water).

In my haste to get it fixed, I now wish I'd installed Stainless Steel (Hitech) one piece manifold and risers instead.

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2005 Sundowner 205

5.0L MPI Mercruiser, Bravo1, 3 blade Mirage SS prop

I'd still suggest you perform an oil analysis at 15 hours.
It can pick up the premature failure of a bearing, which could cost you an entire rebuild.

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2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS