www.iFourWinns.com

Water can't get in the bellows via the gasket, that will let water in by the bell crank but the bellows seals only on the gimble end and the nose of the bearing carrier.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I don't doubt what you say about the instructions. My own experience is that the original factory fitted 2004 bellows without the sealant leaked in water, the ones I subsequently fitted ( 2006 to 2013, and before that 2002 to 2005) using sealant did not leak.

While they may have changed the instructions for some reason, keep in mind that when the housing is new its one thing, but after a few years the sealing surface is not as perfect as it was when it was new. I have found OMC gasket sealer to be an excellent sealer, I use it on thermostat gaskets, bolts that go into aluminum on the outdrive and even in salt water it keeps out water that causes corrosion. I for sure would use it on the gimble bearing housing end for the bellows. The main thing is to make sure that the ring in the sealing surface of the bellows fits into the groove in the gimble housing. That and to make sure the screw clamp is in the right place.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Bump for spring question...

when re-installing the drive I have always replaced the bolts with whatever I can find from the local hardware store, are there better ones or more corrector ones to use?

I have also been successful using a combination of swivels/extensions and swear words to remove and install said bolts...what does everyone else use to make it easier?

That time of the year! Got the pool opened, garden started and now its time for the boat...happy spring.

pics for clicks

water ski -84 by Jon Miller, on Flickr

boat 2013-7 by Jon Miller, on Flickr

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

Those I believe are actually a type of self locking nut. They are supposed to be replaced each time but honestly I have never replaced them. I just put some OMC gasket sealer on the threads of the studs and I have never had an issue with re-using them.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Got all spring chores done now its on to the boat...

if anyone interested in sifting through the photos I am just looking for a smoking gun with my water in the bellows issue. I eyeballed it pretty good taking it apart and inspected the bellows themselves and everything looked fine to my untrained eye, in particular the ground wire appeared to be correct, only thing I wondered maybe it wasn't tight enough. (it wasn't loose per se but didn't feel all that tight when removing.

I am going to replace the bellows either way but just looking for another set of eyes to take a look....in particular the mating surface on the drive side had marks from the drive nose, assume that's normal. And curious as to the spring inside the bellows, again no evidence of a hole or anything but that looked 'off'.

Boat partsgr by Jon Miller, on Flickr

clamp position before removal

Boat partsgr by Jon Miller, on Flickr

Boat partsgr by Jon Miller, on Flickr

mark from ground cable....maybe the culprit?

Boat partsgr by Jon Miller, on Flickr

poor closeup of the mating surface drive side

Boat partsgr by Jon Miller, on Flickr


Happy Spring and Happy Easter/Passover/Good Friday...thanks for looking.

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

Did you check the tube that the gimbal zerk is on. On my boat I had the plastic tube come loose slightly and let some water into the driveshaft bellows. That cheap plastic tube is just a "push fit".

_________________
2001 328 Vista "Nauta Dream 2"
AB Inflatable 10AL "Little Dreamer"
2000 248 Vista
1997 225 Sundowner


Mike

No but I will...that said using the zerk to grease the bearing worked (was able to get clean grease into bearing pushing it in through the zerk fitting)

it really wasn't a lot of water but its happened two seasons in a row since the last change that I did...so I am assuming I was at fault, thanks for looking.

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

OK in your pic of the drive side sealing surface, I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at, can you take a bit more zoomed out pic? This is where the bellows fits into the pivot housing, and then the drive pushes up against it? There does seem to be a little corrosion there. In my OMC shop manual, it tells you to use OMC gasket sealer on the flange where the bellows goes onto the gimble housing. It also says to use the same stuff where the bellows pops into the v shaped groove in the pivot housing. Even if Volvo does not say to use it, I would for sure if you are 100 % certain that bellows does not have a leak in it. The sealing surfaces can corrode depending on the water you boat in, and I was surprised how good mine looked given my salt water use. Also when you reinstall the drive make sure to put OMC /Evinrude/ BRP etc triple guard grease around the inner lip of the bellows there, and also on the bearing carrier. Doing these things makes them less likely to leak.

Lookin again at your "poor closed up of mating surface drive side" it seems like that is the groove in the pivot housing where the bellows gets pulled into. Yes? If so I'd clean it up, looks like there is a bit of corrosion right at the top, and if you follow that brown stain that starts on the right hand side, you can see that the lip of the bellows may have been peeled away from the sealing surface...see that?

PS I went and did some google image searching on the Volvo SX pivot housing, and there is a difference between the OMC Cobra from which it was derived and the Cobra. On the Cobra, the bellows fits into the pivot housing on its outer face, whereas on the SX, the flange is internal, more on the inner surface of the housing. So it may not be as easy to see if the bellows is fully engaged into the flange/groove, whatever Volvo calls it. So I'd reinstall your bellows, use sealer on the gimble housing flange, position the screw clamp at about the 1:00 position, make sure that the flange in the pivot is cleaned up, coat it with the sealer mentioned above, etc. Hopefully that will do it. I have just never taken one of these apart but was interested in the differences because one day when I can't get Cobra parts I will convert mine to an SX.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Lou thanks for taking the time to reply, and sorry I didn't get back earlier...vacation and life got in the way after I started working on it

I had a fair amount of corrosion on the mating surfaces to went ahead and cleaned it up really well, used some sealant and put it back together, will give it another season and re-evaluate in the fall, its happened twice now and always been a very small amount with clean grease coming out of the bearing and u-joints.


I am going to start another thread but the smaller of the two shift cable seals came off and I am looking for replacement and wondering where the water goes once its past the two seals...assume into the shift cable.

Untitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

Well $%^&

At least I am consistently incompetent.

Untitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr

3rd (or maybe fourth) season in a row with water in drive bellows....not really looking for answers as after reading the old posts I think I just need to go back to square one.

If nothing else its 'clean' water compared to a few years ago.....while re-greasing everything the old grease looks pretty good, bearing still tight and quiet.

I am wondering if water is getting in through the zerk when power washing...I always get the major gunk off before pulling the drive with power washer.


If nothing else the Lou school of pulling the drive seasonaly continues to save my ass.

Shortened season due to work commitments in October but overall another great year for my craigslist special.


great season pics

Untitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr

Lake George 18-634 by Jon Miller, on Flickr

Lake George 18-627 by Jon Miller, on Flickr

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

Beautiful pix of your lake!
About the dang bellows that is why many people here don’t want I/O boats and I wouldn’t buy another for myself either. Just too many places where they can leak water although I did mine 2 years ago and it’s still fine.
I looked at the pic of your pivot housing flange and it looked corroded at the top of the pic, wonder if it’s leaking there? The other thing is the grease tube. I recall reading over at iBoats (Volvo Penta I/o forum) some have eliminated that tube and replaced it with a grease fitting where the tube went into the gimble housing. That’s what I would do if I had a leak I could not solve. Are u using an OE bellows or aftermarket? I found the OE ones last at least 10 years.



https://flic.kr/p/TgKNqw

this pic....the next time you do the bellows use an OE one and use OMC gasket sealer or Permatex Aviation on both this flange and the one on the gimble housing. Make sure that the rib in the sealing surface of the gimble end of the bellows, really fits in that groove in the gimble housing flange.

thinking about the grease tube...try greasing the gimble bearing with the drive off and all the old grease and water cleaned off the bearing. If you see just clean grease coming out of the bearing, then I'd think its probably not leaking, but if you see grease that looks emulsified or watery it is a possibility.


last thing...looked back at your pix when you pulled the drive. I did not see grease on the nose of the bearing carrier that pushes into the pivot end of the bellows. In my OMC manual it says to put a good coating of OMC triple guard grease on the nose of the bearing carrier (the part that pushes into the bellows) and the lip of the bellows itself. When I remove mine each year that grease is still there. It will help seal it on that end.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

These are some potential leakage sources for the drive bellows:
1. The grease zerk tube. While the outdrive is off you might try directing a garden hose toward the tube where it goes into the gimbal bearing area and look for water leakage.
2. The worm screw on the hose clamp on the front end of the drive bellows may wear a hole in the bellows. I had this happen twice.
3. The outdrive surfaces where the front and back ends of the bellows attach and seal may have corrosion that is allowing leakage.
4. The area around the u-joints that contacts the rear edge of the bellows may not be sealing against the bellows. Volvo recommends using a heavy grease on these contacting surfaces.
5. The bellows may have a crack or hole. Unless you are lucky a small hole will he hard to find. It might be easier to start with another new bellows and look everything over very closely.

Hope this helps.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

Thanks as always gentleman.....I will take it all under advisement as I put it back together....honestly its getting so routine to remove and replace the drive I might be sad not to see water in there.

Lou...when pushing grease into the bearing I can definitely get some noticeable water to come out … give the grease gun a few pumps, spin bearing repeat and while the grease is obviously compromised somewhat...its really doesn't seem **that** bad. The fact that I got some clean water out of it raised an eyebrow wondering about water getting in with the pressure washer.

silly question but if water is getting into the bellows, might it not be coming out ? I would expect an oil slick of some sort which I don't see.

its an OEM bellows, probably 3 seasons old, degreased and inspected it last year with no damage but will most likely start new this spring.

I get to go to training all of October so its already buttoned up for winter but its always nice to have these posts to refer to every year.

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

Thanks as always gentleman.....I will take it all under advisement as I put it back together....honestly its getting so routine to remove and replace the drive I might be sad not to see water in there.

Lou...when pushing grease into the bearing I can definitely get some noticeable water to come out … give the grease gun a few pumps, spin bearing repeat and while the grease is obviously compromised somewhat...its really doesn't seem **that** bad. The fact that I got some clean water out of it raised an eyebrow wondering about water getting in with the pressure washer.

silly question but if water is getting into the bellows, might it not be coming out ? I would expect an oil slick of some sort which I don't see.

its an OEM bellows, probably 3 seasons old, degreased and inspected it last year with no damage but will most likely start new this spring.

I get to go to training all of October so its already buttoned up for winter but its always nice to have these posts to refer to every year.

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr