www.iFourWinns.com
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/

water in bellows
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14535		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  jontmiller [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  water in bellows
Well damn....

was making record time on my third year winterizing the machine. (using the LouC method..AKA the right way) Everything went great and then I took the drive off and noticed quite a bit of water in the bellows....(I almost skipped pulling the drive thinking I would make it a bi-yearly item)

My plan, subject to popular opinion here, grease the universal joint to remove any water intrusion,(no signs of rust or anything..just water)... ponder replacing the gimbal bearing. (I spun it with an alignment tool and it still feels thick and full of grease..not rough or anything) Gimbal bearing is one of those projects I haven't done yet though I did buy the bearing last year and chickened out...pulling it is my issue, will need to buy tools.

upon inspection if looks like the water made it in from the mating surface of the drive and not the actual bellows...I put some RTV on it per the manual during the installation but not convinced it helped and obviously may have caused the problem in the first place.....photos show one area lower left of the housing that was full of 'goo' greasy gritty watery black mess all in one area....suspect this is where the water came in.

pictures for explanations...open to suggestions and input as always.

Sure am glad I removed the drive and hopefully stayed ahead of a universal joint issue or mid-season gimbal bearing replacement...this just adds to the spring thawing list.

ImageUntitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr
Author:  LouC [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
Interesting, aren't you glad you pulled it? Anyway, when this happens in salt water the gimble starts to rust so fast you usually can't save it. This happened to me about 10 years ago and I let my mechanic handle it because I wasn't doing drive maintenance back then. He said we have to change the gimble bearing but he pumped the u joints full of grease and I'm still using them 10 years later with no issues. What you could do, is really pump that bearing full of grease, while spinning it with your fingers, and see if you have rusty gritty grease coming out. If so I think you have to replace it, but if not then you might be able to keep using it.

With the SX bellows, the only places that they can really leak are the bellows itself, the flange where the clamp is, the end where it seals up against the bearing carrier and the grease tube itself. This tube can leak water in, not common but I have heard of it happening. The other greasy areas in your pix are not really sealing surfaces to keep water out. In fact next time, just clean those areas out and coat the edges of the drive that come in contact with the pivot housing with OMC triple guard to keep any aluminum corrosion from happening.
The OMC Cobra uses a gasket between the drive and the pivot housing but the SX model does not. I'd remove the bellows and carefully look for cracks between the folds. Then look for corrosion/pitting on the bearing carrier where it fits into the bellows and also on that flange where the big clamp holds it on. You may have to clean up those sealing surfaces. I would use OMC/Bombardier triple guard grease on the bearing carrier and in the inner edge of the bellows (it even says to do so in my shop manual) where it fits into the end of the bellows. On the flange where the front end is clamped on, I'd use OMC gasket sealer (again as per the manual). Keep in mind that the bellows has one extra rib, that has to face down. This is to keep the rubber from being stretched when the drive has to be left up. Also there is a groove in the flange that a rib in the surface of the sealing ring of the bellow fits into. This has to installed correctly.

When they are installed correctly, the OE style bellows can last as long as 10 years. As soon as you see small cracks starting in the folds (look really close with an LED flashlight) its time to change them.
Author:  Surface Interval [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
in addition to Lou's advice, I would recommend looking for a hole worn in the bellows next to the worm screw on the hose clamp. I had that, and had water and grease whipped into a foam. I was able to clean it up, purge with grease, and used it for several years without issue. you might luck out......
Author:  jontmiller [ Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
Thanks for the information,

after sleeping on it there really is no way to get water in there any other way like Lou said, it's a new bellows last season not because it leaked but because I wanted to get a known date when these components were replaced, will have to investigate the installation and maybe take it back to the installer. [me]

Will add some new grease for the winter and investigate what comes out of the bearing as well as the u joints and make a parts list for the spring.... <<sigh>>
Author:  rpengr [ Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
jontmiller wrote:
ImageUntitled by Jon Miller, on Flickr


+1 on everything that Lou said.

Just to make the point clear, the cavities in the photo above are not meant to be sealed. It is normal for them to get lake/sea water into them. Your Upper Bellows only seal at the two ends of the bellows.

Ray
Author:  Graham R [ Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
If the 6 nuts are not torqued up correctly or the lip of the bellows is not seated correctly in the groove in the tilt housing, then the outdrive/ bellows will not seal ( it relies on the drive being pushed against the bellows.

At the other end, if the clamp is not tightened enough or the locating lip of the bellows is not in the groove on the transom, then leakage will occur.

Lastly, VP in their factory manual for the 1999 drives specify the use of a non setting gasket cement on both ends of the bellows where it is in contact with the transom assembly and tilt housing. Perhaps a "belt and braces" approach to sealing, but the FW factory did not use in on my 2004 boat and there was water in the bellows and a little rust at the end of it's first season in water ! I used the cement each year after that, never any water in there again !
Author:  LouC [ Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
ps, in that last pic that Ray re-posted, near that lower circular boss is a slot that is supposed to be kept open. This is to drain any water that gets in that recess. If it clogs you can get a freeze crack in the upper gear housing right above that area.
Author:  jontmiller [ Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
yet another good reason I pulled the drive....will have to pay more attention re-installing. Thank you all for the insight.

Assuming the bellows has no holes (brand new last year) can I just re-install (properly) in the spring? Or just be safe and get a new one.
Author:  rpengr [ Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
I would inspect the bellows with particular attention to the sealing surfaces at each end. If there are no cuts, indentations, folds, etc on those sealing surfaces then you should be fine to use it again.
Author:  LouC [ Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
Agree with Ray, inspect it but firstly is this an OE bellows or aftermarket? If aftermarket Id go with a new OE bellows.
Author:  Bliss36 [ Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
Surface Interval wrote:
in addition to Lou's advice, I would recommend looking for a hole worn in the bellows next to the worm screw on the hose clamp. I had that, and had water and grease whipped into a foam. I was able to clean it up, purge with grease, and used it for several years without issue. you might luck out......


Had this exact same scenario happen to me this year. The worm gear clamp would rub the bellows when the drive was trimmed up to trailer causing a small hole that wiped out my gimbal bearing
Author:  tymorrissette [ Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
I got water intrusion because one of the ground strap wires got under the clamps during installation and that area must have allowed water to get under the lip seal in that spot!
Author:  Graham R [ Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
tymorrissette wrote:
I got water intrusion because one of the ground strap wires got under the clamps during installation and that area must have allowed water to get under the lip seal in that spot!


The ground strap harness has a clip that is designed to go under the bellows clamp; it won't do anything to protect the bellows clamp if it's not in direct contact with that clamp !
Author:  alex8q4 [ Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
I changed my bellows with an OEM replacement this summer. The paperwork included in the kit states that a sealant is not to be used between the bellows and mating surface. At one time the opposite was recommended, but they now state otherwise.

The instructions also describe the proper location for the screw on the worm gear to ensure no damage is caused.
Author:  Cptsideways [ Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: water in bellows
Have just pulled my Cobra outdrive today & pretty much similar results. Water in the bellows, though my drive had been off recently to resolve a noise issue (still not fixed yet) & as the bellows have not leaked before I am sure water was getting in via the gasket on the outdrive rather than the bellows.

Luckily I had not fitted my new gimble bearing as I did'nt think it needed changing, though it does now!

Anyway, after pulling it I found the lower pivot bearing was very wobbly, so I machined up a new bush & its all snug again.
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/