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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Hi Lou,

Would you not be requiring a new intake manifold anyway?
Vortec upgrades are great! 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Actually my old intake is OK still. I would do the upgrade to the Vortec heads if the block deck checks out OK but I don't think it is as simple as just bolting on the Vortec heads and intake. I've done a lot o f internet reading and there seems to be differences in the valve train as well. So if I can get a set of good rebuilt non vortec heads, that match up with my old casting numbers, that might be less complex or prone to concerns.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
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2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:46 pm 
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Eager to see how you end up. I'm sure you will have more power than when you started

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:08 am 
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Yep hopefully so. I was at the Nassau County Boat show in Bethpage Long Island yesterday at Grumman Studios (this is actually the old Grumman assembly building where the Lunar Module was built in the '60s) and saw in addition to a lot of nice new fiberglass, a fair number of crate engines. The Merc 357 looked nice, as did the Volvo equivalent.
I am going to carefully clean up the block deck surfaces and see how it looks. Any bad corrosion or enlarged cooling passages or cracks and its new engine time.

I'm always amazed at how bad access for things that break is on new boats. I was looking at a Wellcraft 210 sportsman (dual console fishing style boat, about the size of my F/W). And for fun opened a hatch to see what was down below, you could reach the primer bulb for the outboard, but the bilge pump and switch were un-reachable if they need to be replaced. I could barely touch them. Obviously installed before the top cap is put on. You need a guy with 6 foot long thin arms to get at em. Same thing with most of the I/O boats, a starter change or any repairs to the steering system would be a horror show. Even though many have remote oil filters (finally) you still need to get at the drain plugs. Those walk through designs that everyone loves because people don't climb all over your sun pad, are the culprit. They make the engine compartment much narrower on one side.

I re-designed the rear of my old boat (seats, bulkheads) to make maintenance easier. If I do the new engine I will definitely install a remote oil filter and full closed cooling. This will make normal maintenance and winterizing much easier not having to remove the block drains, lay down next the engine to change the oil filter, etc. While I have wanted an outboard boat for years, the re-power cost on them is daunting. A closed cooled inboard I feel will last as long or longer.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
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2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:10 am 
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Location: Temecula, CA
LouC wrote:
Yep hopefully so. I was at the Nassau County Boat show in Bethpage Long Island yesterday at Grumman Studios (this is actually the old Grumman assembly building where the Lunar Module was built in the '60s).


Hearing your stories, Lou, brings back many fond memories for me. I grew up near there in Northport and my Dad worked on the LEM - in charge of environmental control, so Grumman was a big part of our lives.

For me, the shocking aspect of new boats is the cost. It's staggering and leads me to believe I will be keeping our boat for a very long time or, at the very least, only looking at previously owned if we're ever in the market again.

Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
Yes there is a huge legacy of aerospace work on Long Island dating back to the 1920's:
Grumman in Bethpage
Republic in Farmingdale
Sperry Gyroscope
Hazeltine in Greenlawn (Now BAE Systems)
The whole property north of Hempstead Turnpike east of Oak St and west of the Meadowbrook Parkway was the former Mitchel Air Force Base 1917-1961. I visited it a few times as a small child in the late 50s. In fact if you know where to look you can still see the original runways (Hofstra univ dorms parking lot and right behind Nassau Community College). My son is a student there now and my wife & I went there in the early '80s. Dad passed thru Mitchel Field on the way home to Brooklyn NY after WW2. A lot of history happened on the Hempstead Plains.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jy5oimp4kiey9 ... n.jpg?dl=0

From their corporate offices in Bethpage.....

Mitchel Field with runways intact....But decommissioned and the north campus of Hofstra Univ spreading on to the old air base.....
The group of tall buildings in the upper left right near the end of the runways are the 4 residence Hall towers of Hofstra University.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rjzokmy968lnl ... 8.jpg?dl=0

here is a google maps image of the area, in the current time with the old runways superimposed on the map....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvw49ci5bi0l6 ... s.jpg?dl=0

PS the only thing left of Rebublic Aviation, is one hanger on the north east side of Republic Airport. This is now the American Airpower museum. On memorial day, they have B17s, B24s and other warbirds fly in. Often the B17 flys due north and right over our house. There is something thrilling about hearing 4 Wright Cyclones roaring away a few hundred feet overhead.....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
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2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:34 pm 
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LouC wrote:
. There is something thrilling about hearing 4 Wright Cyclones roaring away a few hundred feet overhead.....


I live fairly near the Yankee Air Museum here in the Detroit area. They have a B17 and a B25 and a C47. Last summer all three were circling my house waiting to do a fly over Downtown Detroit for the fireworks. The B17 sounds amazing but that B25 is a BEAST. It sounds noticeably louder than the B17 even with half the engines!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:51 am 
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To me the best sounding radial was the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 as used in the Grumman Hellcat and Bearcat, the Republic P47 Thunderbolt and the Vought Corsair. When these things crank up its like an earthquake....
No more planes are built on Long Island sadly but there are 3 companies that make parts for out of production but still in use planes like the Fairchild Republic A10 Thunderbolt II ....

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2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:39 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dst7RTxXjzY

2800s in all their glory. Personally the wicked howl of a pair of 2800s on the F7F Tigercat is about as good as aircraft sound gets.

From a purely macho man aircraft point of view though, nothing really tops the Republic P 47 Thunderbolt, built in both Farmingdale NY and Evansville In. In Farmingdale alone they built 9500 of them. It was supercharged and was able to climb faster than just about anything else. Weighing empty at 9500 lbs, it was stronger than anything the Axis had and could take punishment like none other. The high performance version that Republic released at the end of the war, topped out at an astounding 505 mph. Faster than the P 51, Spitfire, FW 190, etc. Its spirit lives on in the tank busting A10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP00A4owzjo

go to 2:00 in the vid, they sound like Harleys with wings!

I was able to drive though the old Farmingdale main plant in 1987 before they demolished it. Sad to see all that history go.

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2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:00 am 
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LouC wrote:
To me the best sounding radial was the Pratt & Whitney...

I agree with you, Lou.
I grew up near Brownsville, TX (way, way south) and was always around the old DC-3's when my Dad was working on them. The pilots would fly over our house (out in the country) early on Sunday mornings sometimes. Ever been woke up by twin Pratt's a couple hundred feet above the house at close to full throttle? AMAZING!

To me, there's nothing better than the sound of the old radials! One of my all-time favorite moments in life has been flying in the left seat of a DC-3 (N50E) over South Padre Island after my Dad replaced one of the engines. I was about 12 yrs old.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Ahh Yes, the Double Wasp R-2800. Fantastic engine. Thanks for mentioning it Lou. I thought I was one of the few fans of WWII aircraft and engines that was on this forum. Good to know I am not alone. :)

Another radial favorite of mine is the Bristol Centaurus. Most familiar in the Hawker Sea Fury/Tempest. Another wonderful engine of the day, and I still get chills everytime I hear a P-51 or Spit with the Merlin engine. Not a radial , but it's sound is like music to my ears.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:08 pm 
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[quote="Cap'n Morgan"]Ahh Yes, the Double Wasp R-2800. Fantastic engine. Thanks for mentioning it Lou. I thought I was one of the few fans of WWII aircraft and engines that was on this forum. Good to know I am not alone. :)

Another radial favorite of mine is the Bristol Centaurus. Most familiar in the Hawker Sea Fury/Tempest. Another wonderful engine of the day, and I still get chills everytime I hear a P-51 or Spit with the Merlin engine. Not a radial , but it's sound is like music to my ears.[/quote

Talking of WW2. My grandparent's farm was close to a RAF base. RAF Valley, it was where many of planes from the USA were flown into before going into active service. Their farm was apparently a popular place with the American Airmen. My aunt married an American airman and moved to the USA, He became a Sheriff in Atlanta. I Lost touch with his 2 sons I'm afraid. The older one and I caused havoc in Trafalgar Square in London when we were 5 apparently, chasing the birds (1961 !). Shame we are not in touch.

Living close to RAF Valley, the visual effect whilst in primary school of a low flying Vulcan bomber and the noise was incredible.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:59 am 
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LouC wrote:
Its spirit lives on in the tank busting A10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog)


Lou, I was thinking the very same thing regarding the A10 being the modern day equivalent with regard to toughness.

Gentlemen, I am loving this discussion no matter how off topic we've gone. Thank you all.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:55 pm 
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OK guys I promise I'm going to stop...but this one I could not resist.....the best sounding F7F Tigercat vid with the twin 2800s making their awesome Pratt & Whitney music, courtesy of Lee Roy Grumman & associates in Bethpage Long Island.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1IM6nXsdQc

PS a long long time ago, when my wife and I were first married we lived in Farmingdale Long Island. We used to go to an old fashioned luncheonette called Von Leesen's on Main Street. Well they were around back in the heyday of Grumman and Rebublic and apparently Lee Roy Grumman used to frequent this place. Legend has it that he designed the folding wing for the carrier based planes on the back of a napkin :wink:

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4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:25 am 
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LouC wrote:
...the best sounding F7F Tigercat vid with the twin 2800s making their awesome Pratt & Whitney music...


OMG!!! I had chills watching/listening to that video! That was beautiful!

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