www.iFourWinns.com

Well my trusty old '88 4.3 finally acted up in a big way at the end of last season. What started with difficulty starting and rough running turned out to be salt water in #2 cylinder. I tried swapping manifolds and the water was definitely not coming from the manifold. So pulled the boat, flushed it out, drained everything and pickled it really well with fogging oil. Finally got time to take it apart. What I found was that the head gaskets did not appear to be blown. Rather the cyl head rotted out in the intake port, the starboard side front cyl you can see rust trails where the intake valve comes out of the head in the intake port. There was also some water (very little but corrosion on the combustion chamber area) of the port side head. Same front cyl. Even tho this one did not spit out water when cranked with the plugs out. So took it all apart, the intake was the hardest to get off, you really have to pry a bit with 2 big screwdrivers between the block and manifold, where the sealer is. There is so much sealer there it does not damage the mating surfaces. I spun out all the head bolts with my De Walt electric impact and popped the heads off easily. What made me think it does not make sense to rebuild this engine is this: if you look inside the cooling ports in the block, there is a LOT of corrosion, like what you see on the end of an old riser used in salt. So there you have it. 15 years raw water cooled in salt is all she wrote. Those of you with boats used on the coasts in the ocean or brackish waters, keep this in mind....if you re-power, definitely add closed cooling, at least a half system....

Pics...in the last pic, you can see into the intake port, from the intake manifold side of the head, there is an area of rust, where the valve guide passes through the head....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tr23hyy6srwfn ... l.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2pu8ac8x71e5u ... l.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiuwl6tcr17k1 ... l.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iy5bpcitruae ... t.JPG?dl=0

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Ouch! Thanks for posting this. Are you going to re-power or re-boat? Are you going to take this as an opportunity to upgrade to a boat with outboard power?

I agree with you on the closed cooling.

With all of the money people throw at new boats, who would complain about paying a couple extra grand to have a closed cooling system as standard? I am glad to see closed cooling is standard on the newer VPs. Coupled with better hull construction techniques new boats may have a much-improved service life for those that take care of them and that is good for guys like me that buy boats right where the blue book value starts to level off...

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2003 FW 170 Freedom 4.3 GL/SX

I'm going to re-power this one. I did the deck and stringers about 10 years ago and had the old faded gelcoat painted with Imron about 5 years ago. The rest of the boat is in good shape. If the engine did not have as much internal corrosion as I could see, I would put a set of rebuilt heads on it and keep running it. But if the heads were rusted through, how close is the block to that, no one can really say.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Really sorry to hear that.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I feel like I got my money's worth for sure. I bought it when it was 14 years old and it had already been used in the salt here then. I ran it another 15 seasons, all moored in salt water. But if the engine was built with closed cooling I bet it would still be good.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Very interesting information, and good luck with the repower. Quick google search looks like a half closed cooling system for the block and heads for the OMC can be had for $950.

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2008 H200 Frenzy Edition 5.0 GXi

1993 Horizon 190 5.0 EFI (Sold)

Yep there are a few from different companies. Someone I know over on the Bayliner board was able to fab up a full closed system for the Cobra. Using Volvo style manifolds. So the Cobra impeller will flow enough to cool both apparently. That would be great in this boating environment, because you'd only have to replace a pair of risers every 7 or so seasons. Manifolds would last the life of the engine. Changing them is a big expense, at least 500 in parts for the manifolds alone depending on what you buy.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Sorry to hear the bad news Lou. Look on it as an opportunity to make your boat trouble free for quite a few years more. Repowering, would a V8 fit your engine compartment ( go 5.7 rather than 5.0 !). ? They sound wonderful as you no doubt know, I miss the sound, my 4 cylinder diesel sounds like a tractor or a 1950s fishing boat.

Yes the V8 will fit; this boat was offered with a 5.0 in addition to the 4.3.
I'll have to investigate the issues relating to changing to the V8 such as moving the engine mounts (pads are big enough) the drive ratio issue, and exhaust hookup issues.
Here in the salt pond the eventuality of rust through affects all raw water cooled engines even out boards.
To get a newer boat Id actually consider buying of about the same size (ie 5 years old or younger) will cost 4-5 times as much as a new engine....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Sorry to hear about the rot, that sucks. On a good note if ya don't have an idea what you are going to do with the parts or feel like getting rid of them let me know, you and I have almost identical boats.

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1990 Four Winns Horizon 200
2005 GMC Sierra

Best of luck, Lou. you've always been kind enough to offer opinion and experience to others so although i've not much to add, thanks for the writeup and pictures. for a 1988 block in salt water i think the fact it's lasted so long is i'm sure due to your care and attention to regular servicing and maintenance. Let us know how you get on and what you decide on for the repower.

Cheers
Phil

Thanks to all!
I took my parts to my local mechanic today and he looked them over. He could see where the head gaskets were blown but felt that the heads may be salvageable. He recommended a speed shop that builds race and marine engines. They will check the heads to see if they are worth rebuilding...

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

More follow up...
I took the cyl heads to the biggest hot rod shop in Suffolk County Long Island. They have a full machine shop and can hot tank heads clean em up and find cracks you can't see. What we found was that the heads had cracks in the exhaust ports in both middle cyls, but there was not water in those interestingly enough. They also found that the cooling passages had eroded due to corrosion under the fire ring of the head gasket which could have contributed to it blowing. None of the cooling ports around the intake or exhaust valves were rotted out though. I am going to really carefully clean all the old gasket material off the block and take a really good look at it. Probably will still wind up with a new engine though. Hard to believe, you can have all this going on and still have relatively normal compression test results. So tests can only tell you so much.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Lou...

It seems really surprising after all this time exposed to salt water that the port's would be in such good shape. As you noted, I'm surprised too.

If you decide to replace, do you think you'll go with any upgrades such as fuel injection, per chance?

Also, if you decide to rebuild your current engine, can the cracked port's be repaired or are you looking at new heads at a minimum?

Best of luck to you in your decision.

Bob

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2004 Four Winns 234 Funship


Tow Vehicle: 2005 Ford F-250 V10 4x4 Supercrew
1992 Sea Ray 200 - Sold

If I wind up re powering I will stick with a simple carb engine but set up a full closed cooling system including the exhaust manifolds. Over the long haul in salt water this will be the best set up. EFI is great on a new boat but on a old boat carbs will cost less and can be easily replaced if needed.
Due to the amount of corrosion and the fact that the water ports were enlarged the guy at the machine shop felt that after milling the heads there was not enough material left for the head gaskets to seal properly. So if I can find a set of rebuilt non Vortec heads that is the easiest way.
There are new Vortec heads out there but you have to make other changes like the intake manifold...

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II