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| ?? about amp ground and battery on SS https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9136 |
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| Author: | 210 SS [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
I'm going to add another amp to supplement the factory Clarion one on my 210SS to power the sub. Can anyone tell me where the ground is run to from the factory amp. I don't have the boat here, so I can't check myself. I don't know if it's run back to the battery, or to a ground point somewhere behind the dash where the amp is, and I need to know to order the right length of ground cable. Also, thinking of adding a second deep cycle battery as well. Thinking of using the Blue Sea add a battery system. So, which battery do I hook up the amp power cable to, the starting battery, or the one I'll add? I'd like to keep the factory battery as a starting one, and then switch over to the other one when sitting with the stereo on, but obviously still need to listen to the stereo while under way! |
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| Author: | aguyindallas [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
The amp should be grounded directly to the battery. If its not, I would suggest moving it there. |
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| Author: | ric [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
You can't use two amps to power one speaker, expensive things break. Can you be more specific in what you're trying to do? If it's get more bass out of the factory sub, adding more watts to it won't make it go boom any more then it already does. If you want the best bass on the market in a 10" sub ( I think that's what FW used) , go with a JL 10w3 but it can't get wet. If you don't wanna spend $300 for a non marine rated speaker and want something 99% as good? Go with the Polk MM series of subwoofers that are marine rated. You'll also have to measure the sub enclosure to make sure it has enough volume for a real speaker, not that junk four winns installed. |
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| Author: | 210 SS [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
ric wrote: You can't use two amps to power one speaker, expensive things break. Can you be more specific in what you're trying to do? If it's get more bass out of the factory sub, adding more watts to it won't make it go boom any more then it already does. If you want the best bass on the market in a 10" sub ( I think that's what FW used) , go with a JL 10w3 but it can't get wet. If you don't wanna spend $300 for a non marine rated speaker and want something 99% as good? Go with the Polk MM series of subwoofers that are marine rated. You'll also have to measure the sub enclosure to make sure it has enough volume for a real speaker, not that junk four winns installed. No no, I'll be more clear. Mine has a Clarion 4 channel amp from the factory, 80W X 4 RMS. It powers four Focal component speakers, plus ch 3 and 4 run mixed mode and also power a sub. The sub currently is an Alpine SWR-M100. I was looking at replacing the amp with a Kicker 700.5 to power all, but got a really good deal on a 500W (bridged to 1 ch/4 ohm) Polk marine rated amp. So I'm going to leave the Clarion power the speakers, and give the sub it's own amp. Maybe then I'll be able to hear the sub, as I currently think it's not so great. A new box is going to be built also, and the compartment it's in vented. I just can't remember if the factory ground is run to the battery, or to a grounding block somewhere on my model. Also, how do you hook this up with two batteries? |
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| Author: | Paul I. [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
I would not use a "Thinking of using the Blue Sea add a battery system." Use a battery combiner, its cheaper & better! |
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| Author: | ric [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
Ohh, okay. If it's "free air", no box, it will sound like junk with no bass. A sealed box will make it crisper, but a ported box will make the bass stronger (what you want). Also remember that amp draw A LOT of power. Rough math time: That clarion 600w and the Polk 500w = 1100 watts of power draw. Realistically that could be 1500+. Most amps draw their maximum power levels... even if you're not turning up the volume. Amps are rated at 14.5v... so... with the boat running that's going to draw 75 amps! Boat off.. (12v), 91 amps. If you're running standard deepcycle/starting marine batteries that are rated for 75 amp hour each (like optima blue). You can only safely use 50% of that. Let's say 35 amp hours. You'll basically run one battery dead in 30 minutes with the boat off. Two batteries... 1hr. Totally cranked while driving, most boat alternators only outputs 60-80 amps. Guess what? You don't have enough power to even charge the batteries and you'll eventually be dead in the water not calling TowUS cause your VHF won't work. You can get an aftermarket alternators that outputs much more amps that are marine rated. Power is a big problem in the automotive world also, but now a days with good modern speaker technology and computer designed subwoofer boxes a 300w amp and a single 10" sub can rock you harder then what two 12" subs and 1000w amp did in the 90s. |
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| Author: | Paul I. [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
I do agree with Ric accept with the math. Your thinking that the amp is outputting 12v to the speakers. I am not sure what they are using for voltages, but I don't think its 12V. We have all seen, 600w @ 4ohms & 300w @ 8ohms. The amp is going to use the same amount of power, but the 8ohms I think would be softer. I found Polk amp at http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107C5001/P ... 500-1.html it uses a: "•fuse rating: 25A x 2" There claiming that you need #4 wire, but not at how many feet from the battery. I am thinking that the most it is going to pull, is about 20 to 21amps of power since the fuse is a 25amp fuse. |
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| Author: | 210 SS [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
That sounds more reasonable. With the factory amp, we've sat for 2 hrs with the stereo on and not tripped the battery minder, which I think cuts power at 11.5 V. Besides, lots of boats run way more system than this, and don't have issues. Lots of tower speaker systems run two amps. The gain and volume levels would also matter, as in how hard you're working the amp. Running ch 3 and 4 in mixed mode at full gain, plus bass boost, at medium volum, had to be working that factory amp hard. |
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| Author: | 210 SS [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
So does anybody know if their factory amp is grounded to the battery or a grounding block somewhere? |
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| Author: | Paul I. [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
210 SS wrote: So does anybody know if their factory amp is grounded to the battery or a grounding block somewhere? I really don't know! But you are asking about grounding only. Were are you getting the +12V from?? That would answer your question, no?? |
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| Author: | 210 SS [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
Not necessarily. In a car, you get power from the battery, and ground to something close. On the boat, it's the same with power from the battery, but can't remember if the ground comes to there or not. |
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| Author: | Paul I. [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
210 SS wrote: Not necessarily. In a car, you get power from the battery, and ground to something close. On the boat, it's the same with power from the battery, but can't remember if the ground comes to there or not. You are right, but this is not a car. The boats "fuse box" should have a Neg bus bar to complet the path back to the battery. What you don't want to do is overload that wiring with add ons that pull a lot of power. Even on the neg side! Thats way I was asking, were is the pos side already connected. You may want to add a small sub panel with a neg bus bar. Wire all of your extras to that. Depending on load & wire run, you may want to use 6, 4, or even #2 wire. |
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| Author: | 210 SS [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
I'm using 4 ga. I'm just going to buy enough to run it back to the battery. 18 ft ish of pos 4 ga and another for the ground.....it's going to cost more for install than the amp!! |
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| Author: | Xavid [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
Regardless of the original factory installation, you should run the amp ground all the way to the battery. I discovered this last year when running new power wiring to my amp. After lots of research, I concluded this is most appropriate. You are right in choosing a 4 gauge wire (should be tinned copper of course). The ground gauge should have the same gauge as the power wire, and given the run length, it would be 8 gauge at a minimum. 4gauge is a better choice for safety. If you are going to do it, do it right the first time, and you won't worry about a fire or catastrophe. Factory install on mine was cheap 10 gauge wire, and a crappy fuse as well. Where does your power wire connect? At terminal or batt selector switch box or starter? Factory install on mine was at the starter which is a bitch to get to. I connected at the batt selector switch box instead. Works fantastic with the in line fuse mounted right there. Much cleaner install and way more accessible. |
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| Author: | 210 SS [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ?? about amp ground and battery on SS |
I think my power runs to the battery now, but I'd have to double check. I'm adding a second battery and switch, so I'm going to run the power to the switch. And the ground I think can run to either battery, and stil work no matter which battery is selected by the switch. |
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