www.iFourWinns.com

With gas prices continuing to rise, and the recent departure of my Freedom 180/V6 Johnson 150, I've been doing a little new boat dreaming. What would be a great tubing boat to replace the last boat, and get 2-3 times the gas mileage? I really liked the quality of my FW. Didn't like the fuel burn though. I loved the hole-shot power. Didn't like the hull drag of a wide heavy boat. For tubing, I dont need that much weight and drag.

If anyone at the factory reads these posts, here's what I think I want.

Build me a boat that's a little smaller in length and width than my Freedom 180. Build a more efficient bottom. Here's how:

The 180 was 18' long, 8' wide, and a deep V with 25" transom. Huge inside, very nice, but heavy. The bottom had a sharp deep V and minimal lifting strakes. Made a good ride, but a very 'wet' riding hull. Wet = resistance, which equals drag. Drag equals lower fuel mileage and lower top speeds.

How about building me a roomy Freedom 160 or 170? Standard FW quality lay-up. Make it just like my 180, just downsized a tad. Let's build it 16'-17' long, and still wide enough at 7' 6". That's easy, those dimensions are very close to the current 180 size specs.

The Important Part: The hull will need two pair lifting strakes running from the bow all the way to the transom. For the center, pad the bottom to 6" - 8" wide. Standard old fashioned low drag/high speed/fuel mileage tricks. Look at any Checkmate/Allison/Hydrostream/Triad as example. Boat can still be deep, but with the flat pad on the bottom instead of the sharp V, I think a 20" transom will be perfect.

Now I've built a roomy fuel efficient bow-rider. Add a dose of 115-130 Optimax or ETEC outboard power and stainless prop. Put that package on a single axle galvanized trailer. Not only will the boat be fuel efficient, but a smaller/ more fuel efficent tow vehicle will be able to take this anywhere.

Yes, I know it will be more expensive than the current 17' I/O 135 hp boat. Probably be as expensive as the V6 I/O Horizon 180. But the direct injected ETEC or Opti will still have a superior hole-shot to the V6, and weigh much less, and burn less fuel overall.

Glastron sells an ouboard 17' boat. But I want the FW quality!

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

Interesting thought. I do think that FW is missing a big market by not building OB powered boats, they sell very well in coastal regions, and they used to offer them up to 20 feet, I have seen a couple of old 200 Horizons like mine with OB power. I'd like to see them build at least a true dual console design like Key West does with OB power. True OBs cost more to buy, but in salt water the reduced maintenance over time evens out the price difference.
As far as efficient hull design, they seem to have had it with the older models! For example, my old 88 200 Horizon is 20'9'' LOA, 7'8'' beam (narrow) deep V with 2 full length lifting strakes on each side. Weight given by FW was 2560 lbs, light compared to the newer 200s which are actually shorter and wider. With the 4.3 I/0 this is a very economical boat, esp if you cruise at 2800 rpm or so before the secondaries open up in the Rochester Quadrajet.
The design I have heard that kind of meets what you are talking about, is the Panga style fishing boats. They are long, narrow, and can be well powered with a 90 hp outboard. They have a low freeboard though. They are very much a work style/fishing boat that needs minimal maintenance. A dealer was selling them here and the price was pretty good. Not really a waterskiing boat, but no reason why a ski pylon could not be fitted.
I will probably go for an OB next time despite the cost, because it's a lot easier to sell an OB around here than an IO

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I'm not quite sure how to vote on this one. I agree about the OB options, but the premise of wanting the "usual FW quality," layout, etc., is part of what makes them heavy. Weight = more power needed = lower fuel economy.

I agree with the need to come up with more fuel efficient ways to boat, I'm just not sure the basic laws of physics will allow much improvement.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Actually, just following the bottom modifications will allow a much more efficient hull without taking out the weight. As far as quality goes, they can even improve on that by using full balsa coring top and bottom (increases strength while lowering weight). But forget the balsa coring, just building in full lifting strakes and a good wide pad will greatly improve the mileage.

I'm mostly just wanting some new small efficient outboard powered boats, that's the main idea of the poll.

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

Of course I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the next wave in boats. Smaller, lighter, with OB's. That would help fuel economy in the boat, make it more palatable to tow, be towable with the smaller tow vehicles that we're sure to trend towards, etc.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

What about aluminum boats, they are lighter to start with than fiberglass, we don't see them here because of salt water use, but in freshwater regions I'd consider one, for one thing they have certain advantages over 'glass.
Then there's the panga style boat.
Check out http://www.pangamarine.com
they are light, with a narrow beam and good for economy, used in developing nations around the world. Their 18'11" boat has a beam of 6'5" and a hull weight of only 860 lbs. Max power is 90 hp. So the full weight of this nearly 19' boat would be only about 1300 lbs with the engine. Compare that to a traditional 19 footer with an IO, that will weigh in at close to 2700 at least. Their 22 ft boat is well powered with only 140 hp. So there are alternatives out there.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

There's probably no desire to go after the low-end small boat market. Quite likely because there's not enough money to be made for the effort.

The issue that FW has is that they are ignoring the entire coastal market, that prefers OB power vs sterndrives. They used to have a full range of OB powered boats but the cost of modern OBs has driven up the price of similar size boats with OBs vs sterndrives. Since they are part of Genmar and Genmar already has their fishing boat division (Seaswirl) maybe they really don't have an incentive to do this.

but if marine gas hits 5-6 a gallon in the future that could change.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II