www.iFourWinns.com

Hi, I am new to the forum and I am looking at purchasing a larger boat. I currently own a 2012 Chaparral Signature 270. I saw several FW models at the Miami boat show in 2015 and have had my eye on a few used 45'+ models this year. I am approaching my next purchase very cautiously as I want to make sure that I buy a brand that is very reliable, has high resale, and excellent customer service. In trying to gain more info about FW, I first looked at the Four Winns website which depicted each model, but I was not able to find anything about the history of the company, any awards it might have, or even a mission statement. I filled out the form to hear back from customer service earlier this week (with the above information) but have not heard anything from them yet. I found this forum which I am hoping will give me some insight into the Four Winns brand - I really hope to hear from current owners and their experiences.
Most respectfully,
Tarzan 89

Four Winns used to have a nice little history summary on their website. It doesn't appear it is there anymore.

Here is my summary from memory, (for reference I have owned a Saf-T-Mate, 2 Four Winns and grew up with a Four Winns):

Four Winns as a company was formed with the 4 Winns (dad and 3 sons) bought Saf-T-Mate in 1975. Saf-T-Mate had been in business for several years maybe a decade before and built some decent smaller runabouts etc.

The Winns ran the business and built the product line to offer a lot of options in many different configurations.

In 1987 OMC bought Four Winns (along with many other boat builders) in an attempt to gain a captive audience for their engines and stern drives. In general the OMC years were good and allowed even further growth and development of many great models.

OMC went bankrupt (a story for another day) in 2000 and in 2001 Genmar purchased many of the OMC boat builder assets including Four Winns.

Genmar continued to invest in new models and continued the good quality products Four Winns had become known for.

In 2009 Genmar went bankrupt.

Platinum Equity (an investment group) bought many of the boat brands from Genmar, including Four Winns, Wellcraft and Glastron, and consolidated operations of those 3 brands in Cadillac, MI where Four Winns had been all along. Four Winns has been in the same town its entire existence. Rec Boat Holdings was the name of the combined company.

Beneteau (a large French boat builder) purchased Rec Boat Holdings in 2014. From the outside looking in with no information from the inside, it seems things haven't changed much after this acquisition.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Thank you.

Don't buy a used boat from Four Winns. They no longer honor warranties due to the bankruptcy. I'm the original owner of a 2007 Vista 358. It has hull problems that were originally fixed under warranty, but have returned. They have told me that it's no longer their problem under the protection of bankruptcy.

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Transcendence II
2007 Vista 358

What's the hull problem? Is it something that would be under warranty still if not for the acquisition and bankruptcy?

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http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o71 ... wqm355.jpg


08' H210SS
VP 5.7Gi

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I guess I'll play devil's advocate on this thread.

Yes, the experiences above are real and painful. However, almost every brand in this space has had customers tell similar anecdotal stories. These experiences are generally rare. Almost every brand has either been bought out or filed bankruptcy at some point. Often the terms of either of these activities require some distancing from earlier liability. It's ugly and nobody likes it, but it happens. Again, I would be screaming to high heaven if I were in the same shoes as Paul358V and others with bad experiences.

My main point is that there's a certain amount of risk involved with buying any boat. Hopefully you can mitigate some of the risk through product selection, brand choice, vendor/dealership support, sea trial, etc. Yet, risk remains. Writing-off an entire brand, based on anecdotal evidence, may not really protect you as much as you think.

-Bart (who looks like a FourWinns operative, but really just loves his boat)

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2008 H220 Frenzy Edition VP 5.7Gi DP
2013 RAM 1500 Crew Cab 5.7 HEMI Tow Vehicle

Previously -
1993 Baja 180 Islander

It's the same with vehicles....I personally will never buy another Ford diesel due to their failure to make the issues with my 6.0 diesel go away, which left me stuck. The new ones are good I here, but once burned I don't touch. With that said my buds have new ford's and love them and have had no issues.

I bought my 08 H210 in 2010....only warranty issue I had was with trailer and dealer made it good with a phone call. They asked how I wanted to make it right and gave option to return to them, take to any FW dealer or they would overnight parts. I opted for parts and they arrived next day. This was minor, but still important to me. My boat is tiny compared to those discussed, so it's not apples to apples but I have had no issue with hull. Haven't read that this was repeat issue.

I reckon this would be something to make sure was inspected to ensure not issue with boat your looking at. I would think that that if it hadn't surfaced yet with the boat of interest then you have the absweer.

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http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o71 ... wqm355.jpg


08' H210SS
VP 5.7Gi

Groupe Beneteau lays out future for RBH Brands
February 11, 2016
Jonathan Sweet

http://boatingindustry.com/top-stories/ ... rbh-brands

The former Rec Boat Holding brands ­­ Four Winns, Glastron, Scarab and Wellcraft ­­ will now be brought under the Beneteau and Jeanneau umbrellas under a plan laid out by Groupe Beneteau at the Miami International Boat Show Thursday. "This will offer a new robust organization for sales and marketing, manufacturing and product development," said CEO Herve Gastinel. "By combining our forces, we can invest more."

Under the new sales organization, Wellcraft and Glastron will be under Jeanneau. Andy Gamble will continue as sales manager at Wellcraft, as will Bruce Sargent at Glastron, with both reporting to Nick Harvey, president of Jeanneau of America. Four Winns and Scarab will fall under Beneteau, with Andy Lindsay as sales manager, reporting to Laurent Fabre, president of Beneteau of America. Roch Lambert, who has served as president of Rec Boat Holdings since shortly after Platinum Equity acquired the brands out of bankruptcy in 2010, will be leaving the company. Beneteau acquired the brands from Platinum Equity, a private equity firm, in June 2014.

Lambert has helped position for its current success, Gastinel said. "Roch has really turned around the company," he said. "He has created a really strong foothold for the group." Among Lambert's accomplishments, Gastinel said, were successfully redesigning the boat lines, building a solid dealer network and launching the Scarab boat line.
It's natural for dealers to be nervous about the change, Gastinel said, but he stressed that Beneteau will continue to support the former Rec Boat Holdings brands.
"We absolutely want to keep investing in all four brands," he said. "This is very important to us, this is critical to us."

The brands will continue to design and build boats in the United States, but will also take advantage of the European operations. Christophe Lavigne will continue to lead those U.S. design efforts. "We'll be creating some boats specifically for the U.S. market and adapting some that we already have ... on our shelves in Europe," Gastinel said.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I love that Four Winns will be under Beneteau. They make some beautiful boats! Some of the best cabin interiors I've ever seen. I was seriously considering one of their sailboats before deciding to go with a power boat.

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2004 248 Vista "Amante"
MC 5.0MPI/B3

The hull problem I have experienced is a structural flaw (slight gap between solid glass boat bottom and coring of the vessel walls) that results in 5 foot long cracking of the glass/gel coat on both sides of the boat.
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Four Winns fully covered repairs twice (2nd and 3rd seasons), but the cosmetic repairs did not last. On my third attempt to get the correct repairs (had the hull surveyed at my own expense), I received the "NOT covered anymore due to bankrupt filing" response. It did not matter that they had their own documentation of the flaw since I purchased it new. The original dealer tried to help by providing all the past warranty repair documents. Their VP of Warranties, Ralph Hoskins, told me flat out that I'm out of luck.
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We love the boat and, hull cracks aside, have enjoyed 9 summers of fun on the Chesapeake Bay. Four Winns and Riverside Marine - Essex, MD treated us great after we purchased the boat in 2007. All the little things (cockpit refrigerator malfunction, defective cabin accent lights) were quickly repaired at no cost. When we identified that the transom was not properly glassed (uneven surface) that allowed water to leak into the bilge through the I/O transom bracket gaskets, they removed the engines and drives, fixed the transom and THEY identified the first round of side hull cracks. All fixed under warranty off season. A great experience - they took care of us after buying a $200k+ boat.
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My only point was buyer beware!!! Transferable warranties are worthless if the company no longer covers them. I don't want anyone to be stuck with eating the cost of manufacturing defects that should be covered by the warranty.
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I'm lucky that the boat is fully functional (above the water line) and we plan on continuing to enjoy her for several more seasons. My resale will suffer greatly due to the hull issue. I received an estimate to properly fix the cracked locations - $17k. The funny part is that the actual repairs (cosmetic external, reinforced tabbing on the inside) is only $2k. It's $15k to rip out and reinstall the port couch / cabinets and starboard galley to be able to reach the areas that need to be structurally reinforced to prevent the flexing that causes the cracking. Our final upgrade in three years to a 40+ footer will sadly not be another FW Vista model. Got my eye on a 2008 Cruisers Yachts 520 Express.
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Enough whining . . . Looking forward to the 2016 season. See you on the Bay!

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Transcendence II
2007 Vista 358

Not a good business model and I find this hard to believe. Didn't both Genmar and Plaintum/Rec Holdings honor warranties? I know Genmar did because they did warranty work on my boat that I purchased under OMC. I just cannot believe a new company would not honor the warranty.

Has anyone had any warranty work completed by Beneteau even though their boat was purchased under Genmar let alone Rec Holdings?

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Current Boat: 2000 Four Winns 298 Vista
Previous Boat: 2000 Carver 406MY