www.iFourWinns.com :: View topic - Bizarre FW construction philosophies

I have several, but keep in mind these boats weren't made by God. The port and starboard side seats on the rear bench of my 08 h210 don't lift to access storage underneath without lifting entire rear bench....this is bulky and a pain as all have to stand.

Access to easy access impeller ain't easy unless your a spider monkey.

You have to be a navy seal to use bow ladder while in water.

This is one 'supposed' advantage of the Volvo & Bravo system that I don't totally understand, since the issue is not just access in certain boats, but also this design where the impeller must suck water a far greater distance than on designs that have the impeller in the drive, like the Alpha and Cobra. With the impeller in the drive, it only has to suck the water up about a foot or so, then pushes it forward. This is why it is harder to get certain boats with Volvos and Bravos to prime on the water muffs.

On the OMC Cobra, you remove a plastic cover at the rear of the upper gear housing (3 bolts) and the impeller housing is right there! Takes 15 min, you could even do it in the water if you're careful!

I've always wondered why the water pump in these boats can't be a simple easy access in line electric pump.....hell, it works to push enough water on high performance race cars.

And why does it need to be made with weak rubber fins? It's not a suction issue or volume issue...

Author:	Graham R [ Tue May 30, 2017 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Bizarre FW construction philosophies
I'll start. The support for the middle cushion fitted on the rear seat base of my 278 Vista collapsed. I assumed it was pull out of wood screws from the wooden base. Wrong; they had originally engineered it properly with machine screws and metal inserts in the plywood rear seat base . Kudos to them. The "Starboard" support though, they had countersunk the holes on both sides so the screw heads were bearing on only around 1mm of plastic ! The design meant the screws didn't need to be countersunk at all. Conventional dome headed machine screws would have ben better ( and quite possibly cheaper !).

Author:	TX H210SS [ Tue May 30, 2017 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
I have several, but keep in mind these boats weren't made by God. The port and starboard side seats on the rear bench of my 08 h210 don't lift to access storage underneath without lifting entire rear bench....this is bulky and a pain as all have to stand. Access to easy access impeller ain't easy unless your a spider monkey. You have to be a navy seal to use bow ladder while in water.

Author:	BrentC5Z [ Wed May 31, 2017 10:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
TX H210SS wrote: I have several, but keep in mind these boats weren't made by God. The port and starboard side seats on the rear bench of my 08 h210 don't lift to access storage underneath without lifting entire rear bench....this is bulky and a pain as all have to stand. Access to easy access impeller ain't easy unless your a spider monkey. You have to be a navy seal to use bow ladder while in water. Ditto to all! I chalked the bow ladder up to a selling point (sold me) and not a useful feature on the first outing. Impeller: A small rectangular removable panel to access. Looks good on the showroom when the salesperson points it out. Might as well remove the bench and side panels of the engine to actually do the work though. Takes the same amount of time and doesn't leave you with gimp arms afterwards. Rear bench: You learn really fast to put non-essentials under the side seats. basically the extra life jackets and throw cushion that is only on the boat to keep you legal. Trailer: Don't get me started after the bunk rail job we just finished... Swing up walk through on the sun pad: Had ours made from scratch to eliminate it. The hinges were level with the padded surface on the stock one. Never had a lake outing without the word "OW" from a sun bather.

Author:	TX H210SS [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
Damn...how did I forget the walk thru hinges...it's OH when you step on it, but sumbeach when you kneel down on it. Like a kick to the berries! The stock Sony stereo dumping the station upon restart will have you mumbling to yourself too.

Author:	LouC [ Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
It seems like its "lets make it cheap and fast, and who cares about the poor slob fixing it" On my old '88 when I re-did the rear of the boat, I made a few changes: instead of one big heavy bench seat, I got 2 36" bench seats, that can be removed separately. instead of wood partitions that are screwed together, I used bolts and wing nuts to hold them together, with blind fasteners in certain places. this way it all comes apart relatively easily. Makes the winterizing not too bad, and this will really help me now when I re-build the top end of the old V6...

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Author:	TX H210SS [ Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
I've always wondered why the water pump in these boats can't be a simple easy access in line electric pump.....hell, it works to push enough water on high performance race cars. And why does it need to be made with weak rubber fins? It's not a suction issue or volume issue. Here's a novel idea....mount the in-line water pump, remote oil filter and fuel filter on a single easy access bracket.....and......mount the rear seat unit on studs held in place with neoprene bushings and locking cotter pins....and.....make the rear bench in 3 sections so Mike Webster doesn't have to come help lift it. The Webster name was used for us old timers who remember the Steelers in the hayday.

Author:	LouC [ Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
This is one 'supposed' advantage of the Volvo & Bravo system that I don't totally understand, since the issue is not just access in certain boats, but also this design where the impeller must suck water a far greater distance than on designs that have the impeller in the drive, like the Alpha and Cobra. With the impeller in the drive, it only has to suck the water up about a foot or so, then pushes it forward. This is why it is harder to get certain boats with Volvos and Bravos to prime on the water muffs. On the OMC Cobra, you remove a plastic cover at the rear of the upper gear housing (3 bolts) and the impeller housing is right there! Takes 15 min, you could even do it in the water if you're careful!

Author:	rpengr [ Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
LouC wrote: This is one 'supposed' advantage of the Volvo & Bravo system that I don't totally understand, since the issue is not just access in certain boats, but also this design where the impeller must suck water a far greater distance than on designs that have the impeller in the drive, like the Alpha and Cobra. With the impeller in the drive, it only has to suck the water up about a foot or so, then pushes it forward. This is why it is harder to get certain boats with Volvos and Bravos to prime on the water muffs. On the OMC Cobra, you remove a plastic cover at the rear of the upper gear housing (3 bolts) and the impeller housing is right there! Takes 15 min, you could even do it in the water if you're careful! Yes, the location of the Cobra water pump was the greatest thing ever. 10 min job to replace impeller. I even did it while in the water (although backed up to a beach so I could stand up). However, my understanding is that it could no longer be placed there when the design switched to a cone clutch. But then the sales team calls it a "feature" to have the pump at the front of the engine TX H210SS wrote: I've always wondered why the water pump in these boats can't be a simple easy access in line electric pump.....hell, it works to push enough water on high performance race cars. And why does it need to be made with weak rubber fins? It's not a suction issue or volume issue... The electric water pumps on race cars are only the "recirculating pump" which has very little back pressure to deal with. The boats Raw Water Pump does need to have suction to prime itself, and force a predictable volume of water from the drive, through the engine and through the manifolds. I think that would take a pretty big motor to make it electric (like a trim motor running constantly). So an engine driven rubber impeller makes sense, but why "weak rubber fins"? My old Evenrude and Yamaha outboards had very thick fins on their impellers that never broke off...after several years they would just loose flexibility. Maybe the thin fins are to limit the maximum pressure...so that with clogged (rusted) manifolds, you still wouldn't blow a hose apart and start sinking the boat.

Author:	LouC [ Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
Actually the pure-OMC cone clutch drive did have the same impeller at the rear of the driveshaft just like the plain Cobra and is just as easy to change.... It's really a shame the company was so mis managed at this point because if they could have kept their sterndrive division going I bet this drive would have been seen as every bit as good as a Volvo SX or Bravo. Rushing the Ficht into production, outsourcing parts and buying boat companies they could not afford was part of their UN doing..... take a look at this at Crowley Marine..... http://www.crowleymarine.com/johnson-ev ... /53981.cfm

Author:	Graham R [ Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bizarre FW construction philosophies
Agreed, the impellor at the front of the engine can be a pain to change, but there are some simple modifications owners of earlier ones can do that make it much simpler, like mods to the retaining bar and using stainless socket head screws instead of the soft bronze slot head ones. Some later ones had mods made by VP themselves. I never had any issues with priming the water pump on my 5.7 GSi and GXi ensines( the pumps are of course under the water line Another bizarre mod made by Four Winns to my boat. It has a ( relatively expensive) VP auxillary relay harness for the EVC system. FW chopped off the relay connector block and crimped on individual spade connectors . Talk about working hard to waste money, absolutely bonkers !!!

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