www.iFourWinns.com

I am having an intermittent problem with my Instrument Panel. It keeps cutting off and resetting.

Troubleshooting information:

- I have tried to check all the wires behind it and can't seem to find anything loose.
- It does it even while sitting still so I'm not sure it is movement related.
- It seems to be worse at the beginning of the day and does it less as the days goes on. For instance, on Saturday this weekend, I had very few problems, but then on Sunday it kept resetting constantly for the first 10 min and less often for the next hour and then had the problem more towards the end of the day.
- I have dual battery and have the same problem on 1, 2, or Both.
- If the radio is on at the same time, I don't notice any issue with the radio.

The closest Four Winns dealer is 100 miles away from where the boat it. I have a boat shop I use near the lake for mechanical issues (replaced impeller), but I'm not sure if they can work on the electronics for all brands or not.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

_________________
John
2001 Four Winns Horizon 230
VP 5.7 GSi / DP
2007 Ford Expedition EL

1st thing I do when electrical trouble shooting is check for a GOOD ground! You wouldn't believe how much $$$ & components thrown at problems that turn out to be just a bad - in my field of work.

_________________
2008 H190 4.3L Blue W/Red Graphic
2002 Honda CBR954RR BLK/SLVR slightly modded
2003 Yamaha Warrior 350 6spd < SOLD!

+1. On the other hand, it might also be time to consider the factory replacement and get rid of the VDO's. This is a very old, well documented problem.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

+1
I'm an electrician, and that's the biggest problem I run into. I've had it with 2 of my 3 boats so far, and wasn't suprised to find my 12v outlet wired backwards in my Brand New FW this weekend!

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

I think I'm finally going to get some time to work on the boat this weekend. We've had some great days out on the water for our first year boating, but this VDO resetting is going to drive me crazy. Before replacing, I am going to try to run the new ground wire to see if that helps.

I have read a lot of information on the Internet and from CDI which all states to run a new ground to the cluster, but I can't seem to find any specific instructions on WHERE on the cluster to run the wire. From the wiring diagram it appears that there should be a bare wire coming out of PIN 4 (Ground PWR) and running to a fuse. I am planning to disconnect that wire from the fuse and attaching that wire to the new wire that I will run back to the negative post on my battery or to the engine ground. Does this sound reasonable?

Here is the link to the CDI manual: http://cdielectronics.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=TaxfVyMjt5c%3D&tabid=55&mid=384&language=en-US
The pinout in on page 6 and the new ground wire diagram is on page 13.

If anyone knows exactly where to connect the new ground to the cluster, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

_________________
John
2001 Four Winns Horizon 230
VP 5.7 GSi / DP
2007 Ford Expedition EL

I wouldn't recommend bypassing that fuse, unless its only for diagnostic purposes.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Thanks for that link... I haven't checked it out yet but will very shortly. I have had a couple of issues with my cluster lately and I know what you mean when you say it will drive you nuts. My cluster just went completely "dead" the other day when I was running along at 30 mph. This has also happened while I was sitting at the dock idling one other time also. My biggest issue electronically is my radio though. Sometimes it will power up and other times it won't. I have seen it not work all day eventhough the boat has been started and stopped several times and the next day it will power right up! It is very annoying because you never know when your not going to have tunes...

I wish the components would just completely fail so you can diagnose and replace the problem once and for all but, unfortunately we will have to wait for this to happen or waste a bunch of diagnosing the problem.

Sound to me that you have some kind of connection problem and it may even be a bad joint on the circuit board. Moisture or expansion contraction could be enough to not have a circuit making "good"

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Mike,


I might have used the wrong terminology. I said "fuse" and should have said "fuse panel". Here is a similar document to the one I linked above, but it has a Ground Circuit Diagram on the last page. It states "The diagram shows that there should not be a ground lead between the Module and the negative (Common) side of the fuse panel." I won't know for sure until I get under there to study it, but I think there is a ground wire running from PIN4 to the fuse panel that needs to be removed and replaced with a ground wire running directly to the negative battery post or engine. I don't think I would actually be bypassing a fuse.

http://www.sso-usa.com/marine/TechnicalSupport/pdf/Bulletins/Manuals/VDOClusterManual2000.pdf

As always, your help is appreciated.

Thanks,

_________________
John
2001 Four Winns Horizon 230
VP 5.7 GSi / DP
2007 Ford Expedition EL

Ah. Now I understand.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Not much of a diagram, but I'd have to agree that pin 4 is the connection you'd want to ground to the engine block (or battery) if you trace existing wiring to the fuse panel (highly probable). Interesting that the manual makes several references to a similar problem caused by voltage spikes on Mercury outboards. The use of non-inductive spark plugs was identified as the cause there, have you looked at the type of spark plugs you have in your Horizon? Perhaps another method of determining if voltage spikes are related to your reset issue would be to see if you can get the VDO cluster to reset with the engine off - I'm thinking that voltage spikes would not be present when running off of the battery opposed to alternator/voltage regulator. Another thought would be to temporarily add a second 12V battery and power the cluster from there effectively eliminating the alternator/voltage regulator; you could probably use something small like a jetski or motorcycle battery, or even a 12V lantern battery. If voltage spikes are the cause, and non-inductive spark plugs are not the answer, I wonder if there's an inline component that filters voltage spikes that could be added?

_________________
2007 Horizon 200
4.3L GXi/ SX 225 HP

I appreciate the suggestions Jim. My issue happens without the engine running. In fact, the problem is now that it doesn't work at all until it seems the engine gets hot and then it works some and resets intermittently. I ran a new ground wire from Pin 4 directly to the negative battery post tonight, but the panel is still dead with the key on. I am beginning to think it could be a loose power connection and something expands as it get hotter and it makes the connection (but not that good of connection). The troubleshooting guide says for no function at key on to check the ground and to check the voltage at pins 22 and 23, but like an idiot, I forgot my volt meter. I ran out of time, but in the morning, I'm going to try to trace the wires from pin 22 (Ignition B+) and pin 23 Battery and try to make sure all of the connections are good.

_________________
John
2001 Four Winns Horizon 230
VP 5.7 GSi / DP
2007 Ford Expedition EL

Well, I think I keep digging a deeper hole. After cutting the bare wire coming out of PIN4 and running my dedicated ground wire to the negative battery post, my panel is still resetting intermittently and now the speedometer quit working. I don't know if my new wire affected it or if I messed something else up while I was working on the wires. We had another family with us on Saturday so I didn't want to mess with it too much and we ended up not going out in boat on Sunday. The 110 degree heat index this time year does not make for good weather to work on the boat. On my next trip I will remove my extra ground wire and splice the wire coming out of PIN4 to see if my speedometer will start working again. Also, I will bring my volt meter.

Thanks for everyone's input. I guess I am getting closer to replacing the VDO with the newer model or individual gauges, but I haven't given up yet.

_________________
John
2001 Four Winns Horizon 230
VP 5.7 GSi / DP
2007 Ford Expedition EL

Bummer. +1 on the voltmeter, and good luck!

BTW - a friend of mine has a 2000 190H and had to replace the VDO cluster. The replacement panel he now has looks almost exactly like the one on my 2007 200H. It's real nice!

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2007 Horizon 200
4.3L GXi/ SX 225 HP

These problems must have to do with the year of the boat! I noticed yesterday that my depth guage, hour meter, clock, trip meter, odometer, water temp, kept cycling through randomly as we traveled along. I am going to make some inquiries about cost of a replacement cluster, but will hold out until it goes really bad.

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Yes, it is a known issue with the VDO Cluster used by Four Winns from around 1998-2001 (or something like that).

_________________
John
2001 Four Winns Horizon 230
VP 5.7 GSi / DP
2007 Ford Expedition EL