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Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8241		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  makoshako [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
I did some more diagnostics trying to figure out why the motor wasn't starting and deduced this to a factory misswire. In that process I found that the 30A CB (labeled Helm Power) supplied the power to all of the circuits outside of the engine compartment. This supplies primary power to the starter circuit. The misswire was in a connector that had a Red/Purple wire on pin 2 of the male side, but went out on pin 3 of the female side. Pin 3 on the male side was a Orange/Red wire that was disconnected at the fuse panel. I reconnected it and that corrected the starting problem. Still misswired though.

As far as the trim problem. I was able to verify that the primary side of the relays had power and that, when the trim switch was depressed, the secondary side of the relay was energized and that there was 12V at the heavy gauge blue and green wires going to the trim motor. I tried to jump the power directly to the blue and green wire and got nothing. I am assuming there is something wrong with the trim motor. Are those things really ~$800?

By the way, looking at your picture PDACPA, my motor is set up quite a bit different ... where your red button is, is that the CB/fuse/relay panel? If so, mine does not have a red button. Volvo may have redesigned that, since in my CB/fuse/relay panel there are several relays (for trim, starting, etc), several big (40A) fuses and one 40A CB for trim. All of which appear to be OK.

Does anyone have any insight in to how to deal with the Trim Motor?
Author:  Graham R [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
The trim motor usually has 2 connections; basically the polarity of them is changed over to make it turn it one way or the another. Just jumping a +12V to one connector will not necessarily make it work. If you connect +12 V and ground directly to the pump connections , that will tell you if it's OK.

The motors on their own seem to be about $75 on Ebay US.

Graham
Author:  ric [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
tap the motor with something metal and heavy, like a wrench or hammer. Not too hard to break it of course. Works everytime for me. Happens about once every 2 months where it needs a little lovin'
Author:  PDACPA [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
Mako - I could not look as the boat is not at my house, but I believe there are two relay's inside that black box that has the red button. There is no label other than the engine info and serial on a sticker on the side.
Author:  makoshako [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
Graham R wrote:
The trim motor usually has 2 connections; basically the polarity of them is changed over to make it turn it one way or the another. Just jumping a +12V to one connector will not necessarily make it work. If you connect +12 V and ground directly to the pump connections , that will tell you if it's OK.

The motors on their own seem to be about $75 on Ebay US.

Graham


Thanks Graham ... when you say Polarity do you mean that the 2 relays (up and down) are working in unison, or in other words, when one relay is energized the the other is supplying a ground and visa verse. That would make sense if the relays are set up that way. That way, up would have 12V potential and down would have -12V potential.

So to test it, like you said, put 12 V on one line and ground on the other and visa verse to go the other way.

I will try that this weekend.
Author:  Graham R [ Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
Yes, that's right; the motor will turn either way, depending on which way the +12V and ground are connected. Some Electrolux motors used on trim pump have 2 pairs of connectors in 1 plug, but they're not as common as the 2 connector type.

Graham
Author:  makoshako [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
I checked everything again and tried jumping (ground and 12Vs) and got nothing ... so I pulled the pump/motor out and tried jumping it there and nothing ... I unbolted the motor from the pump and still nothing ... I am pretty sure that it is the motor. I replied to another thread in this same group that was over a year old and it appears that these trim systems are going to be a problem. If mine is the motor I think we need to add that the list of issues (leaking, plugs falling out, pumps failing, ball valves failing, etc). And if you talk to a dealer they are not serviceable. over $800 for just the part (which is a kit including the lines and everything ... add labor and its over $1000 I would bet. POS.

I want to find that damn motor ... should be ~$100.
Author:  Graham R [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
There seems to be loads of new ones on Ebay for $75- 100

Edit; sorry, that is of course for the earlier trim pumps that were inside the boat, not the later ones mounted outside.

Graham
Author:  gregs [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
There used to be parts available to repair these types of motors. You need to find a reputable Auto Electric shop in your area that actually repairs starters and alternators.

On my last Horizon 180 the trim pump leaked oil up into the motor, I replaced motor/pump/reservoir as an assembly, a deal from my dealer, still it was $600.00.

Also check out Stern Drive Engineering, I have seen them advertise assemblies in their magazine ads.

If you remove the assembly and disconnect the hydraulic lines, make sure you either lower the drive fully down or block the drive fully up. If it is in the up position when you remove the hydraulic line, the drive will got to the down position with a resulting displacement of hydraulic oil. Ask me how I know this.

Greg
Author:  makoshako [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
I give ... how do you know? :shock:

The drive was in the up position and when I when to take the motor/pump out, yes the drive when down. I was assuming all the time that the system would have to be re-primed and new oil added.

On this one there were 2 socket head bolts holding the case to the pump/motor assembly. I took those out and this is when the fluid started to come out and the drive went down. I then took the 6 hex head bolts on the case and was able to get to the pump/motor. I was able to remove the rubber boot at the top and disconnect the to electrical leads. I could then take the pump/motor out and separated the pump from the motor. I am suspicious that motor got oil in it too.

How did you resolve your issue?

Thanks
Author:  gregs [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
I know because I disconnected both hydraulic lines with the drive up. As the drive went down it forced all the oil out and into the boat. :oops:
Author:  makoshako [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
I assume you must have a Mercruiser with the Trim Pump inside the boat. The newer Volvo Pentas have the Trim Motor mounted on the plenum and is outside the boat as far as the hydraulic fluid is concerned ... I loosened the bolts holding the pump the casing (socket heads) when the fluid started coming out. I just put an oil pan under it. I walked away to get some more tools and when I came back the outdrive was down.

Oh, and by the way, Stern Drive Engineering is only working with Mercruiser I/Os at this point. They do have lower units for some outboards though.

The next question I have is what is the procedure for "re-priming" the trim system.
Author:  gregs [ Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
It was actually my 2001 Horizon 170 with a 3.0 SX VP. They also had the trim pump/reservoir assembly inside the boat as does Merc.
Author:  BullGatorTitan [ Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
The trim system on my 2001 is self priming. Granted that is the older model in the boat, but I'm betting yours is too.
Author:  makoshako [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outdrive tilt/Power trim not responding
Well I got my trim back up and running (thanks Brian) and consider myself going in the direction of a Subject Matter Expert on this new VP Trim System. The motor to my knowledge is not available 3rd party right now, but if someone can crack the code (find the supplier) that would be nice. I took the used motor/pump assembly and attached it to my casing so I didn't have to disconnect the hydraulic lines and also did not have to run the electric back to the engine compartment. Also, I used Power Steering fluid (temporarily) and the the system did self prime itself after just one run up and one down.

We took the boat out and had no problems. Will keep testing.
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