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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:23 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm
Posts: 55
I been in the market for a new,well new to me boat. I keep coming back to one,its a 1999 245 Sundowner and has the 5.7 Volvo GSI with duo prop drive with 610hrs.
I just like to run in by some current owner and see if the boat has any know problems,like certain rot issues,bad seating layout,leaks etc. Also I work on everything I can,so is the engine easy to get to and maintain?

I just sold a 268 sea ray sundancer last season,Loved the boat but the seating up top was horrible and even worse than that,That boat would rock you to death while just floating around out there in Lake Erie,but I guess that was due to the deep vee and it being so tall with the aft cabin. Would the 245 sundowner be more stable and less rocky?

I also had a question about the seating layouts,did these come in different options? I see the boat im looking at has that curved horse shoe seating,But I seen another one same year and model and it has a strait seat along the back,Was this modded or do they make them like that as well?

I plan on using is just for recreation,maybe some light fishing,pull the kids on the tube from time to time,and maybe spend the night on there a few times a summer. Think this boat is well suited for this?

I think im going to make a appointment to go see this boat,which its being sold by a marnina for the private owner,which I always bought outright from the owner,any thing to be worried about by dealing with a brokerage sale?

Whats your thoughts of the asking price of $13,500,I personally think its a bit on the steep side even though the blue book says thats about the worth of it. It seems pretty bare bones,has a average gps/fishfinder. Average covers and bimini top but no camper covers or anything. It has a trailer,but thats all it lists. And I was told boats this time of year here in Ohio are sold below value,but I guess that varies with each seller.

My last question is the the hours on the volvo,Im sure it all depends on how it was maintained but does 610 hrs seem high for a 99',think it comes out to about 40hrs a season. Also any problems having someone work on the volvo engine/outdrive and getting parts for etc.?

Thanks for the help,Im sure i'll have more questions as I think of them but these are my main concerns off the top of my head. Thanks again!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:17 pm
Posts: 521
Location: Metro Detroit/Holland MI
We had a '97 245 Sundowner for 6 years, just sold it last summer. It is the same design as the '99. We loved the boat but my wife wanted a real enclosed head so that's why we sold it. Ours had the U-wrap seating which we loved. There were at least 3 different seating layouts that I know of. The Cockpit is really large and with the u-wrap seating you can fit 8 people comfortably on the boat.

The only leak issue we had was a small leak from the anchor locker that would leak into the under seat storage compartments in the cabin. The access to the engine is not great, with the u-wrap seating you can take out the rear middle seat base to get better access. I thought it handled water really well, we boat on Lake Michigan. We do the exact things you plan on using the boat for, it works well for all those things. It is a good all around boat, not great at any one thing but not bad at anything either. It should perform well with the GSi and duo prop. Mine only had 250 hp SX drive and was marginally powered for a boat that size. If it is the blue one I see on boat trader it looks like it has the fiberglass liner (Floor in the cockpit). That is a good thing, mine had carpeted plywood which can rot if not kept dry.

That price seems a tad high if the boat doesn't have camper canvas. 40 hours a season is probably at the top end of use for a Northern boat but if it was maintained well it probably doesn't matter.

I've only bought two boats and both were brokerage. I feel more comfortable with that, you can leverage the company instead of a private owner. If the dealer is on the water it makes a sea trial, etc much easier. Even though this boat doesn't cost too much I'd always recommend a survey or at least an inspection before purchase.

Hopefully all goes well with your search and purchase, let me know if you have more questions about the 245 Sundowner.

Here is a link to the sales brochure from that year, you can also look at other years for more information, the same design was used for quite a while.
http://www.fourwinns.com/upload/Documen ... atalog.pdf

http://www.fourwinns.com/customer-service-catalogs.aspx

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Terry
Current: 07 Crownline 255 CCR cuddy - 350 Mag MPI/B3 "Casi Cielo"

Previous:97 245 Sundowner 5.7GI/SX

Tow vehicle: 1986 GMC 2500 Camper Special 454/TH400
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Ohio
I have a 98 225 Sundowner with the same engine and drive. The VDO dash that is in it have known problems, there are many different fixes on this site. I replaced mine with a newly designed one 5 or 6 years ago and have not had any problems. I also had the low pressure fuel pump go bad and replaced it myself. Other then that I really have not had any problems outside of normal wear items on a 18 year old boat. Access to the oil filter and rear spark plugs is difficult and it looks like I will be similar on this boat.

Any small boat is going to rock you while floating if Lake Erie has a some chop on it, Lake Erie is notorious for the closely spaced waves.

If this is the boat at Beaver Park they have Volvo mechanics on site. They used to be a Four Winns dealer and still have many that dock there, the original owner of my boat purchased it from them. Engine and drive parts are readily available from many online sources.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:09 pm 
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
As the owner of the same boat in a bowrider style (my 2000 Horizon 240 is the same style as the 1996-1999 models)

I think they are a great handling boat, and very stable for it's size. It is a 20deg V, and very wide (8'6"). I have had mine out in rough seas in the Atlantic and have been impressed at both low speeds and high speeds (the boat lands well when nearly airborne hitting swells at high speed). In my opinion, the 1996-1999 models do not have any need for trim tabs as the 2001-200? models seem to need.

They are not known for any rot issues as long as your boat has the gelcoat floor option with snap in carpet, not the glue-in carpet.

As Joet said, the VDO gages have a reliability issue, and can be completely replaced with round gauges and a new panel for about $600 (+labor). My VDO gages are still working fine, but I do take care to keep them dry.

My 5.7GS (250HP) carbed engine has been just fine for power, as the 1996-1999 series is several hundred pounds lighter than the later models.

As far as engine access, it depends on which seating style you have. I have the Sunsport seating option, and access to the sides of the engine are good, but access to the front is very tight. The impeller change is a challenge, but can be done without removing the seats. The seating can be removed in about an hour by two people for those time that require full access, as the sunsport seating was supported by starboard box structures that can be unscrewed from the floor. Photobucket is down now or I would add some engine compartment pictures.

Regarding the 610 hours... I think that is great. You won't "wear out" one of these engines until your way over 2000 hours. 610 is enough to see that the boat was used regularly, which is better than sitting around unused. Regarding the price...seems to be within normal range. All depends on condition. If it's in great condition, it is worth paying a premium. I would say from "poor" to "excellent" these boats are worth $7k to $16k.

In short, I love my H240 and would recommend the 1999 models.

Ray

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:35 am 
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Starfish

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm
Posts: 55
These are honest and great responses,so far im not scared off!
This is in fact the boat from beaver marina. I actually called earlier and talked to someone but they really couldnt tell me anymore than what was listed on the site "which wasnt much" I was less than impressed with the way he handled me on the phone,But then again he did say hes not in the sales department.

I think im going to call tomorrow and schedule a viewing appointment,as the boat is outside in this cold snowy Ohio weather! Hopefully I will get someone that knows a bit more than this guy did.
So far I asked him things that are important to me,Like does it have dual batteries? Has the previous owner had it for a awhile? and does he have any service records such as impeller,gimbal or bellows change outs. Out of those questions he had Zero answers for me. This boat is being brokered by the marina for the owner,I never dealt with this before. What is the standard procedure for this,do you ever talk with the owner,Or is all dealings done by the marina ?"in this case,and you dont deal with the owner"

Besides all that,Please let me know if you think of anything I should check or ask before buying.

And a real zinger for you guys,If you were going to shell out 13k for a used 99 245 sundowner,would you recommend a different boat for that money,or at the very least minimum requirements or equipment for this boat to warrant the 13k price tag?

Here it is,maybe this will give you more of a idea of what im looking at..... http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1999- ... -102606663

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:40 am 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 6:01 pm
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Location: Ohio
Beaver Park is a pretty small operation. I think most of there sales now are in center consoles and limited used boats so I would not hold an unknowledable person against them. Plus the Cleveland boat show was this past weekend so people probably had time off after working all weekend.

Here is a link to their staff page, I would try contacting the owner or a salesperson by email http://www.beaverpark.com/AboutBeaverPark/Staff/tabid/2760/Default.aspx

You may want to ask about the exhaust manifolds and risers. The impeller is really easy to change on these. The pump is external and is mounted next to the engine. Every other year or so I just remove the pump when winterizing and bring it home and replace the impeller sometime before spring.

Where on Lake Erie do you boat? My boat is rack stored at a marina next to Beaver Park.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:47 am 
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Starfish

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm
Posts: 55
I'll be docking and boating in Eastlake. I think I'm going to call today and schedule a appointment to go see it. What about the manifolds and risers?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:04 pm 
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Location: Ohio
ProfitOfDoom wrote:
What about the manifolds and risers?


Whether they have ever been replaced. They are basically a wear item, since the boat is 17 years old it may be time to replace them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:57 pm 
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ProfitOfDoom wrote:
Here it is,maybe this will give you more of a idea of what im looking at..... http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1999- ... -102606663

Looks pretty good in the pictures.

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:14 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm
Posts: 55
Yea looks pretty good. They didnt have much more information than whats posted on the page but found out the owner had owned it for more than 10yrs which makes me feel better.
But I made a appointment to see it saturday,So if anyone can think of things to check or be concerned about,Please let me know as im going to make a list of questions and things to check. Thanks for all the help so far!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5661
Location: Long Island NY
If I couldn't get records from the owner, then I would feel more comfortable if I could get my own mechanic to do a thorough inspection on the boat including:
compression test
pull drive check bellows, gimble and ujoints
complete hull/deck/transom check for rot and delaminated fiber glass. Feel for springy areas when walking on the deck, look for cracks around the transom opening for the drive and also inside, look for cracks on the engine mount pads and on the aft inner transom around the inner transom plate. Any brown stains coming from mounts or screws are signs of wood rot internally. Grab the helm seats and try to flex them while looking at the mounts on the deck , are they flexing/moving, if so there could be rot even if there is a fiberglass deck liner...
water test-check all systems for proper operation, shifting in and out of gear, listen for engine noises, when turning listen for noisy gimble bearing and ujoints, make sure water temp, oil press and volts are normal, make sure engine reaches specified max rpm (usually about 4600-4800). Feel for vibrations, esp when trimming up or turning
Pull out the dipstick and look for dirty oil and water on the end of it
Pull the outdrive drain plug and see if water comes out before gear oil

In that one pic of the engine, I did see corrosion at the joint of the manifold and riser, on the outside, that means that the risers should be removed and checked. If there is corrosion on the outside, it could be leaking on the inside.If its a fresh water boat, usually you don't have to replace the exhaust like we do in salt water every 7-8 seasons but not all fresh water is non corrosive. I also saw what looked like corrosion at the front joint of the intake manifold and block, there is a seal there, take a good look at that.

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2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:12 am 
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Starfish

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm
Posts: 55
I see what your talking about. I cant say for sure as the pic isnt exactly clear but im hoping that rust color is just some gasket sealer. It looks odd that it is that bold and even across the intake manifold and by the riser,But anything is possible. I'll be sure to pay close attention to those areas,Thanks!

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1999 Four Winns 245 Sundowner


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:12 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm
Posts: 55
I also have a question about installing a perko or similar dual battery setup. Im not a hundred percent sure it doesnt have it,but its not listed on the description and I didnt see a switch in any of the pics,so im guessing It doesnt. Would this be a pain to install?

And im also certain it doesnt have a shore power hook up,Im not sure how I feel about that. My past boat had that and a on board charger,and never had to worry about dead batteries. I guess I could always still add a charger and just run a standard extension cord,Or would this not be "Proper Dock Etiquette" ?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:17 pm
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Location: Metro Detroit/Holland MI
The battery switch is under the small sun pad just behind the rear seat. The front of the sun pad pulls up and the pad flips open towards the stern. I had a battery charger with an extension cord. I made my own cord by using a standard extension cord and installed a dock power style plug on the end to plug into the dock power.

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Terry
Current: 07 Crownline 255 CCR cuddy - 350 Mag MPI/B3 "Casi Cielo"

Previous:97 245 Sundowner 5.7GI/SX

Tow vehicle: 1986 GMC 2500 Camper Special 454/TH400
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:50 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm
Posts: 55
97_245_sd wrote:
The battery switch is under the small sun pad just behind the rear seat. The front of the sun pad pulls up and the pad flips open towards the stern. I had a battery charger with an extension cord. I made my own cord by using a standard extension cord and installed a dock power style plug on the end to plug into the dock power.


So these came standard with dual batteries?

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