www.iFourWinns.com

I watched a 378 with twin IPS Drives dock by driving completely sideways (no bow thruster). If I go with a bigger boat in the future I think that's the way I will be going, twin diesels and twin Volvo IPS drives, it's remarkable!

Though, there is something to be said about the simplicity of a straight inboard setup. I/O's are complicated and not well suited for salt water use (the Ocean Series being the one current exception) the IPS is complicated but fortunatly it's all Bronze so corrosion should not be an issue. Inboards are nice because your dealing with bronze or NiBrAl props, stainless shafts and a couple bronze struts.

After being on a 378.... Perhaps someday

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Brett DiMichele

While I agree about the IPS/Diesel combo, I don't really like how the space is laid out on the 378, or the new 458 for that matter. They really don't DO much with that added length. Sure, you do get a larger refrigerator but the other spaces aren't all that much more versatile than what you find in a 34' boat. This is true of most express cruisers, so it's not just a jab at the Four Winns models.

Frankly, I think the late 80's 'wide beam' SeaRay boats did a better job. Granted, the squarish looks and color schemes didn't age well, but the cockpits had much better 'entertainment space'. The new boats don't seem to be getting anywhere near as much use out of their space. I find lots of wasted space in all sorts of places. But that's fodder for a whole other thread, so I won't hijack this one further...

As for maneuverability, you can get used to anything. Once I got the hang of the 348 I find docking just as straightforward as my old 21' single I/O. Twin inboards are great for pivoting the boat around. You do have to factor inertia a bit more since it's considerably heavier. The 'coasting' one might do in a small single I/O isn't quite as practical in a larger vessel. But the twin engine pivoting capability (even better with IPS) is much easier for me than the single ever was.

But don't forget to factor fuel and use patterns. A smaller boat may not offer as much in the way of creature comforts when below, but it'll consume less fuel underway, and travel at a faster speed getting there. Top end on a 348 is somewhere between 30-35 depending on load, but don't even ASK about the gallons per hour necessary to do it. The wife just makes that thumb-and-fingers rubbing motion for the money being gobbled when the RPMs are over 3200 for more than a minute or two...

I guess a good parallel would be a camper van versus a pusher RV. If you're prepared to plan ahead and go light then a small van is great. You'll get their faster, park wherever you want, use the van for travel around town and save a lot on gas. The downside being really cramped quarters. The pusher would be a LOT more comfortable but would take more fuel to get there, require special parking and you'd have to tow a car behind it if you want local transport. To say nothing of the initial cost differences. It's practically the same set of arguments for boats. Bigger ain't better if the fuel costs kill your use of it.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Bill,

Amen to that whole post

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Brett DiMichele

And the cool part of it all is we'll soon have another Four Winns owner among us! Twins, singles, inboard or whatever, if it's FW that's great! If not, well, we'll help anyway!

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Hi Bob. I noticed on another thread that you completed the survey and sea trial on the 348Vista?

How did all that turn out? Are you going for it? If so, Best of Luck!

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'04 FW 268Vista "Andiamo"

Yes it goes down this week! It's not the one that I was looking at when I started this thread but the one that was listed on G and R's site. I am going to keep it at Brewers in Deep River. Stay clear of me til I get the hang of it. I will be the 348 with inner tubes placed all the way around whilst I yell obscenities....

Congratulations and Best of Luck Bob! Is this the one up in RI? Looks good in the listing! I'll have to look you up when I am up there in August!

Don't worry about the manuevers. Just remember to keep it slow, put out a lot of fenders, keep a telescoping boat hook or 2 readily accessible, and have your dock lines ready well before you approach the dock! Also, as the captain, DO INSTRUCT your guests on what to do or NOT, especially warn them not to try to jump off the boat at the dock. IF they can not step off easily and safely tell them to stay put! I have seen guests anxious to help, wind up in the drink several times in our travels.

Regards,
Jim.

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'04 FW 268Vista "Andiamo"

I have a couple of rules about docking that I teach in our Squadron's Boating course. I ususally teach boat handling.

1. Have the fenders and lines ready well before docking.

2. Make sure the crew knows what to do. I had a friend on board and we were docking. He was on the stern. I instructed him to throw the line to the dockmaster when I was backed into the slip. He did. The dockmaster asked him what the hell he was to do with the line....he threw both ends! Don't assume they know what to do.

3. Don't worry about people on the dock and what they say about your docking technique. There is nothing wrong with multiple attempts. It's the easiest way to see the effects of wind an current.

4. Anyone who tells you they dock perfectly all the time...well, don't buy a bridge from them!

5. GOLDEN RULE Never ever ever approach the dock faster than you are willing to hit it! If you got docked without damaging the dock, the boat and no one got hurt...you did a good job.

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Don't know if the 2004 hull is any different than the 2005 but slow can be a problem. I find that the speed of being just 'in gear' is not enough to keep the 348 from wandering a bit. I spent a few harrowing weekends trying to bring the boat into the marina just being 'in gear'. Once I figured out it was necessary to add a bit of speed nearly all my docking stress disappeared. In gear the boat moves along at 4 mph. This is too slow. The boat gets caught by the wind and current and starts getting pushed sideways. Since the boat "steers" from the middle this means trouble. You get pushed too far sideways and you end up having problems trying to swing the stern around. Now I travel through between 4.8 and 5.3mph and it's MUCH more controllable. You wouldn't think the increase from 4 to 5.3 would make difference but, trust me, it does. This also means you'll have to be mindful of using a little extra power in reverse too. But the twins in a 348 can yank this thing to a dead stop inside of a single boat length at these slow speeds.

What's REALLY important is to not overcompensate. If things are getting screwy the last thing you want to be doing is panicking and tossing too much throttle into the mix. I think this is why some folks talk about never using throttles when docking. They're correct in the sense that too much throttle IS a bad thing. And in a stressful situation a newbie might get confused and end up using too much throttle. I can see where that would be the case when using separate throttle and transmission controls. It's bad enough just dealing with the spatial comprehension issues of twins while looking fore and aft. Adding a whole other set of sticks would certainly add to the hassle. (I can't recall if the 2004 uses Teleflex single controls or not). But for me, with the combined throttle/transmission controls, it's a LOT easier to dock the boat using small bits of extra throttle now and then.

So, in general, I agree with the notion of going slow. Just not so slow that you lose effective control.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Wow, sounds like there is quite a bit of difference between the ways 348V inboards and SD's handle.

My SD boat handles just fine at idle. Getting a little less than 4.0 MPH (usually around 3.7). Also, docking rarely requires more than differential gear shifting. A SD boat won't spin around itself quite like an inboard, but with the VP duoprops, it really gets a pretty good bite.

The only times I have wished for a thruster have been to make up for my poor technique. Going slowly and deliberately will make you look like a pro - most of the time...

FWIW, when pulling into a slip, I do not use the steering wheel. Just make sure it is centered and use the engines in and out of gear to do the work. The only exception is pulling alongside a dock or other boat. Then, I'll approach at a 45-degree angle. Take it out of gear, turn the wheel away from the dock to flatten the approach. Then I put the outside engine in reverse and turn the wheel all the way towards the dock and the stern comes in like I have a stern thruster. Makes my buddies with inboard cruisers jealous....

As for speeds, I cruise around 3400 RPM's and get about 27MPH and 1.2 MPG. Take it up to 3600 and I get 29-30 MPH and slightly less MPG (maybe 1.1). WOT gets me 40-41 MPH and around .7 MPG.

Inboards will stay comfortably on plane at lower RPM's than SD's, but they are inherently less efficient and thus burn more gas even at their slower speeds.

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

Congratulations Bob,

The 1st few docking attempts are going to be fun to say the least. I had a few interesting times myself this year. The best thing I did was get 2 lessons from a local captain. The 1st time we tried to dock we tapped 3 docks, almost got divorced, and sold the boat in one afternoon. Now we are able to get into our slip with minimal problems. It is not always pretty or efficient but we have stopped hitting things. I went from being totally unable to dock the boat to being proficient at it in a relatively short period of time with the lessons. The lessons included teaching my wife the proper handling of the lines. We now enjoy taking our boat out without the extreme anxiety of how to get back in. If you are going to dock anywhere near Old Saybrook/Westbrook, I can give you the name of the local captain that helped me. It was the best money I ever spent on boating. E-mail me at dbbrx@cox.net.

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07 Tiara Sovran 4300
07 338 Vista - SOLD

Heh, if you haven't already, plan to take the boat safety course WITH your wife. It's really helpful when both parties understand what boat safety is about. This hasn't inspired my wife to undertake docking, yet, but it did help get her to think ahead on docking and line handling.

But what's really helped has been her support in dealing with docking. Most of last year I *required* absolutely NO talking or distractions from anyone in the boat. Even with the in-laws aboard I had full support from her when I needed quiet. My explanation was simple, this is a pretty expensive boat that weighs fifteen thousand pounds, has 700 horsepower and even a simple scratch costs five hundred dollars to fix. Docking is not simple and WILL get expensive if I don't have complete cooperation from everyone on board. I smile when I say this, but they all really seemed to 'get the point' and shut their gobs long enough for me to get it into the slip.

This year I've gotten better at it and haven't needed 'complete' silence. Now I just kill the radio, let folks know "this may be a little tricky so give me a couple of minutes so I can really pay close attention to what I'm doing". Works great.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Thanks Barry... I emailed your address for the info. Sounds like money well spent...

Thanks, I am taking the all day boating course on July 21. Would love to take my wife but I don't have one. I am afraid to tell the last wife that I have a boat for fear that she will try to take half for old times sake!

Bob, ROFLOL!! That's Funny but So True!! I've been there, so I know exactly what you are saying! Good Luck With everything!

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'04 FW 268Vista "Andiamo"