www.iFourWinns.com

Hi everyone! This is my first post!!

I've been trying to iron out a deal with a broker on a 2000 328 Vista for almost two weeks. It's been somewhat of a nightmare (Are all boat brokers deceitful, dishonorable, untrustworthy liars?). Anyway, the boat *looks* to be in good shape...survey is scheduled for next week.

It has the following: 5.7 GSi 280 engines with duoprops, Kohler 5kw Generator, Vacuflush Head, AC/Heat, Camper Enclosures, Cockpit Cover, Deck Sunpads, Fire Extinguisher System, Trim Tabs, Hour Meters, TV/DVD combo, Stereo with CD Player, Depth Sounder, GPS, Radar, VHF Radio, Two CO Detectors, Ice Maker in Cockpit, Remote Spotlight, Helm Stereo Remote, Tank Level Indicators, and Windlass.

Engines have 220 and 216 hours. Generator has 20 hours. Bilge is dry. No rips or tears in fabrics or vinyl. No rust detected anywhere.

I offered $67000. Should I have started lower on this boat? Is my offer too low (which would somewhat explain the pissy attitude of the broker)? NADAguides says the boat with these options is valued at approximately $82000, but I've never, EVER seen any boat sell for as much as NADA values it.

I don't see a lot of comments on the 328. Was it not a particularly popular model in the Four Winns line?

Is there anything I should have the surveyor concentrate on (besides everything)? Are there any issues 328s are known for?

I think that is a steal for a 328. Do you have a link to an internet ad? For point of reference I'm looking at 298s from 2000-2003 ranging from 79-84k. Granted I haven't made an offers yet, but typically I think 8-10% is a good starting point.

And yes I've had my fair share of issues with brokers. There is a 298 in Chicago I've been wanting to see for 4 weeks now. Every email and phone call has gone unreturned. The real loser here is the seller of that boat who is probably paying 10% commission.

I do have one guy at Skipper Buds whose been great to work with, but they don't have the boat I want.

Deals are out there. I have a deposit on a 2003 loaded (Gen, electronics, right down to the dinghy with engine!) 348 Vista with less than 200 hours on the twin Volvos for 85K. Should close on it this week. It's a buyers market right now so be choosy.

What's making me nervous is the broker accepted my offer of $67K the day after I made it with no counter offer. I thought he'd try to push me up to $75K but he didn't. I immediately thought "hmmm, maybe I should have offered $60K."

Of course he's been a jerk about everything since then... not wanting to clean or wax the boat (it's filthy), not wanting to redo the bottom paint (it's sketchy), saying certain items would be replaced before I made my offer, then saying he never said it after accepting my offer, stating he'd had the boat cleaned and then getting caught in a lie when I went to see it again and saw the boat hadn't been touched, trying to push me into using one of his surveyors, etc... freakin' obfuscative, manipulative weasel. I should be shot in the head if I ever consider buying a brokered boat again. Sheesh.

Anyway, if everything goes okay with the survey would you consider the $67K buying price a good deal on a 7- almost 8-year old 328, or did I overshoot the mark?

I'm a new boater myself but I used a surveyor recommended by my bank and insurance agency. They have a vested interest also in having it surveyed correctly. Also, probably not telling you things you don't know but include the quick haul to check out the hull with a sea trial. I certainly hope you don't use the surveyor whom the broker suggested. You are paying out big bucks and don't want a guy who is going to push it through just for the sale and his little kickback. I spent about 3 hours onboard with my surveyor and used it as a learning experience about the boat. Figured if I was putting out the bucks I would learn something too. He was more than happy to show me things around the boat.

As far as the price you are paying goes, let me repeat that I am a first time boat owner and not the best to ask. But in comparison, I am paying 85K on a four year old 348 with less than 200 hours on the engines. My boat also has all the things you listed on your boat and it is in amazing shape. So, I would say that yes, you could have gotten a better price.

Anesthetized, that you're paying $85K on a 2003 348 has me concerned about my offer, to be honest. I don't want to get rooked on this deal.

Can anyone else chime in here with opinions for me, before I go to contract on my deal...or waste money on a survey for a boat that's not worth my offer?

I made the mistake of buying a boat through a broker once.. I won't EVER make that mistake again!

Perhaps there are some good brokers out there, when you meet one, let me know..

Anesthetized is correct, it's a buyers market.. Look around and don't settle.

_________________
Brett DiMichele

You worried... that means I shouldn't expect more than perhaps $50k for my 288

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Yeah. If Anesthetized were paying $85K on a 2003 328, or $85K on a 2000 348 I'd feel a lot better about paying $67K on a 2000 328, but now I'm feeling quite queasy about my offer . I think I need some quick reassurance because I'm thinking about bailing. Sigh.

I wouldn't be sighing at this deal. In the short time that I've been looking at Four Winns, it seams like you are still getting a great deal, considering the boat is in decent condition mechanically and cosmeticly<sp?> What area do you boat? That will make a difference, so you can't always compare what one person is paying in one area versus another. I'm looking at a 2003 298 Vista from a local Sea Ray dealer (they used to be a Four Winns dealer too, until they were bought out by MarineMax) and trying to figure out what a realistic offer would be. They are asking 95k, but I am thinking 75k. I do have a 2005 Sea Ray Sundeck that I would be trading in, this boat is a pre-owned which is good.

"Bailing" is a dirty word. I guess it's better to bail before you buy than after! Didn't mean to make you queasy, I reserve that for my patients. Wouldn't go by what other people are paying for their boats. Just check yours out well and let the broker know that there are deals out there...

I will be boating, if I buy the 328 that is, on the Delaware River in New Jersey. I would imagine that boats in Anesthetized's neck of the woods (Connecticut?) would be more expensive than where I am, generally speaking.

Well, as of now the survey is scheduled for Wednesday, so we'll see. I'm thinking about countering my own offer after the survey to see just how eager the broker is to get rid of the boat.

Either boats in Chicago are typically more expensive or all the below are way overpriced. Here is a list of 298s within an easy drive of Chicago.
year power drive hrs price
Volvo Penta GSI 2000 5.7L280HP Duoprop $79,900.00
Volvo Penta GSI 2000 5.7L280HP Duoprop 190 $69,000.00
Volvo Penta GI 2000 5.0L/250HP Duoprop 250 $79,900.00
Volvo Penta GI 2000 5.0L/250HP Duoprop 790 $65,000.00
Volvo Penta GSI 2001 5.7L280HP Duoprop 150 $78,000.00
Volvo Penta GXI 2003 5.0L/270HP Duoprop 200 $79,900.00
Volvo Penta GXI 2002 5.0L/270HP Duoprop 74 $73,900.00
Volvo Penta GXI 2003 5.0L/270HP Duoprop 114 $88,500.00
Volvo Penta GXI 2003 5.0L/270HP Duoprop $94,900.00
Volvo Penta GXI 2002 5.0L/270HP Duoprop $79,900.00
Volvo Penta GXI 2002 5.0L/270HP Duoprop 77 $75,000.00
Mercruiser 2003 4.3/220HP Bravo III 120 $87,500.00


These are more expensive then the 328s everyone is mentioned. I would look at a 328 but it won't fit in my current slip and the waiting list in the Chicago Harbor system is long for an upgrade.

Perhaps I need to extend my search radius.
Something else to keep in mind as far as I know brokers are just that brokers. They are there to simply pass your offer onto the owner and take their 10% If the marina owns the boat it's a different story, but I'd guess 90% of brokered boats are owned by private parties.

One thing I realized in my boat search over the past 7 months is list price doesn't mean crap. The 328 I offered $67K for was originally listed at $94.5K. Of course $94.5K is a ridiculous price for a 2000 328, but other sellers/brokers are in the same ballpark, +/- $15K on this boat.

I believe these guys know the boats are not worth nearly what they're asking, but they put these ludicrous prices out there knowing a buyer's going to talk them down, but I have to say it's getting crazy. The first boat I almost bought earlier this year (2003 Cruisers Yachts 3372) was listed for $117K. I offered $88K and it was accepted. The deal never went through because my surveyor found hairline cracks in the stringers that made me too uncomfortable so I walked away, but the point is the seller accepted $29K under his list.

Same with the 328 I'm getting surveyed this Wednesday. I offered $27.5K under the list price and it was accepted, and without a fight mind you.