www.iFourWinns.com

Well, it would appear pulling the water heater in our 348 isn't going to be "as bad" as I expected. Mike from Four Winns customer service sent me an e-mail with a PDF detailing how the starboard seat and locker gets removed. This will let me pull the water heater straight up and out. I'd feared it was going to require pulling the starboard engine manifold or exhaust assemblies.

While it won't be "trivial" pulling up that whole locker, it'll at least be nothing more than a few screws and some silicone caulk to get it reinstalled. I'll try and take some pictures of the effort.

For those not following my misadventures this season, the dealer had this boat over the winter. They supposedly winterized it. I'm rather doubtful given the problems I've had with the waste and fresh water systems. There's not been one glaring "smoking gun" that would prove it though. But I'm guessing the split in the side of this water heater should do it. That and their bungled attempts to fix things, along with being chronically late, have convinced me the only way to get anything done right is to do it myself. Thankfully I'm handy and can make the time Otherwise, well, let's not go there...

The upside to all this is FW customer service (Mike, Roy, Ralph, etc) have been very helpful in answering my many questions and getting warranties to cover things. But that'll surely come to a test when figuring out who's going to pay to completely strip and repaint the botched bottom paint...

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Whoever said it was possible to get the water heater out whole has NEVER DONE IT.

There's physically just not enough clearance to get the water heater out through the gap between the decking and the starboard engine exhaust hose. There's about 3/4" more needed. What I ended up doing was completely removing the cover on the water heater. Once I got the *bajillion* little screws securing the cover removed it came out relatively easily. But you'd still need to remove the locker above it because it's still a bit too big to try removing otherwise.

Removing that decking was tedious. I had to remove the seats first. This was actually a good thing. I found a fair bit of moisture and a LOT of dirt accumulated behind them. There's supposed to be a bead of caulk where the cup-holder deck meets the transom. There was barely a pencil-thin line of it on mine. Not enough to prevent water from getting down in there. But it's marine-grade wood and there are no signs of rot, delamination or mold.

That and there's supposed to be a drip channel running around the decking. Trouble is there was too much caulk gooped into the gap and it blocked drainage. This left dirty water pooled up behind it. Once it dried it left a LOT of filth. When I reinstall the decking I'll be sure not to block the drip channel. Anyone else with a similar design (348/358 and probably others) would be doing themselves a favor to check theirs drains properly.

Once I got it out of the boat I found a hairline crack in the weld around one of the fresh water fittings. I'm no welding or winterization expert so I can't be sure what caused it to fail. Perhaps Four Winns will be able to figure it out.

As I reinstall it I also plan on putting a by-pass on it. This will let me cut off the water heater from the fresh water system during winterization. This will let me drain the tank completely and not have to fill it with TEN GALLONS of anti-freeze.

I also noticed a fair bit of mineral deposits inside the fittings to the heater. perhaps yet another reason to pursue putting water filtration on board.

But the good news is Mike at Four Winns is going to just send me a new unit. I'll send this one back in that box once it arrives. Hopefully it'll be here before the end of this week so we don't lose any (more) time on the water.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Wow, what an adventure. Did you take any photos? These boats are assembled in halves and the major systems are installed before the top half is attached. In fact, when we were trying to figure out which AC unit would fit in my boat, the manual's photo shows the unit with the top half of the boat off! These things are not designed for maintenance after installation, no doubt about that.

I've talked with Mike at FW regard my multitude of issues and he's been tremendously helpful to me as well.

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SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

Yes, I took photos but I haven't uploaded them yet. The engine compartment is pretty serviceable in the 348. The decking above the water heater is removable. Actually it's the side of the locker under the starboard seating. The lip meets the engine compartment lid. The then stands up a vertical section making the side of the locker. The part then continues to form the bottom of that starboard locker. It's sort of an L-shape vertical profile and probably weighs no more than about 50lbs. Once it's off you get really good access to the water heater, vacuum pump, trim tab pump, and starboard gasoline tank. Removing anything other than the gas tank would be pretty straightforward.

Removing the AC unit on the 348 would appear to be a bit of a challenge! But not impossible. If it didn't come out the access grill then I'd imagine it would come out through the space where the sofa is located. You can get to the unit itself by removing the grill under the steps and taking the steps out. The steps are actually pretty simple to remove. I pulled mine out to ease the installation of a Raymarine Sirius weather module and network hub.

I've seen boats being repowered and they often require a LOT of cutting. The Vista doesn't look like it'd require much, if any, cutting to replace the engines. You'd have to use a travel or fork lift to remove the engine compartment lid, but that's to be expected.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

The AC compressor has been out of my 348V. It comes out through the access behind the steps.

I'd love to see shots of removing the deck above the water heater. I get the idea of what you are saying, but can't quite visualize it....

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

I left the camera on the boat so the pix will have to wait. But here's a PDF I was sent from Four Winns:

http://www.ideaspace.net/boat/docs/fourwinns/starboard_cockpit_deck.pdf

It's part number 1 on that diagram.

If you look at the cockpit area on the starboard side there's a bench with a storage area under it. Not the one at the stern. Inside that locker you'll see two supports for the hinges molded into the decking. If you look at the bottom of this area you'll see there's a gap around those two supports. There will be screws visible going down through the floor. That's where that section ends.

Raise the engine hatch and look at the lip that runs around the engine compartment. Close to the forward end of the compartment lip, on the starboard side of course, and you'll see where the section breaks and there's some caulk. You'll also see one at the stern end of the lip. Those two breaks are where that WHOLE section attaches. The whole piece, about 48" long, 20" wide and 12" high, comes out. It's like an L shape, where the base of the L is the floor of the locker and the tall part rises up to form the wall between it and the cockpit. The subwoofer speaker is mounted in the tall part of the L.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Thanks for the post Bill. Just out of curiosity, does your '05 348V have a helm breaker panel under the captains seat?

Mine does not (despite what all the manuals say). It has a second storage compartment there - without a door - perfectly sized for a pair of throwable cushions. My only breaker panel is in the cabin above the Clarion head unit.

Also the wiring diagrams in the owners manual are completely incorrect for my boat. Somewhat frustrating when I'm trying to add electronics...

I'm told mine was one of the the first ten 348V's out of the mold.

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

Mine does not have a panel at the the helm either. Contact Four Winns about getting the correct owners manual. When I got my 2005 it came with a 248/348 series manual, which was the wrong one. They actually sent me a 3-ring bound copy of the new one as it hadn't gone to press yet. The new one is largely correct but I have found a few places that are inconsistent, but not enough to be a problem.

I keep my life jacket and the covers for the chartplotter and radio in the open locker under the captain's seat. I keep several fenders, a fire extinguisher (mounted) and the waterproof charts inside the closable locker next to it.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

That's very interesting about the helm breaker panel. My '07 358 does have a breaker panel there. Do you guys know where all the individual breakers for the helm are located on your boats? I have separate push button style breakers for almost every aspect of the helm systems located in that compartment. It's weird to me that the early manuals showed it, then they corrected the manuals and then apparently added the panel back in.

Ben

So you've lost the storage under the seat? That's a shame. There's not enough room as it is (but is there ever?). But then I'd like to have the option to control a few more things via individual breakers. Things like some WiFi gear, a DC/AC inverter, etc. I've been wondering where else on the boat I'd put one. There's not really another good location to hide a breaker panel.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

My boat came with the old 248/348 manual too. I also got the updated three-ring binder version and then a new, spiral-bound version after it was printed.

Unfortunately, the new version is still incorrect as to wiring diagrams. It shows the helm breakers - which are not there. My boat has no breakers for the helm except for the "helm main" on the cabin breaker panel. That said, I have two other breakers on the main panel - "Radar" and "Autopilot" - and I'm told they run to the helm, but despite my best efforts, I can't find these wires anywhere. Would be nice for running the radar and GPS.

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

Hmm, my radar breaker does control the chartplotter and radar gear. I'll be "in there" probably tomorrow to correct the wiring of the clock the dealer did WRONG. They put constant power to the danged LIGHT in the clock. Idjits...

The autopilot breaker controls the separate control box for it that's mounted up inside the cabinet next to the steps. I don't recall if there was a single wire to it or if it was part of a loomed harness. That cabinet is the one that contains the main breaker panel along with the air conditioning. But it also has the amplifier for the arch speakers and subwoofer, the sirius radio module and the autopilot computer. I also used space in there to mount the Sirius weather module and a network switch. The switch connects the weather module to the E-80 chartplotter while also letting me connect other stuff like my laptop and wifi gear. I shanghai'd the Overboard Discharge breaker to control power to the Wi-Fi router.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Wow, I'd LOVE to know where the "Radar" wires go in the helm. Colors would be very helpful as well.

I'm intrigued as to which Wi-Fi router you're using and how you're using it...

Also, do you have an autopilot?

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

Let's pick up the conversation over in this other thread instead of here.

http://www.ifourwinns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8920

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Here's what the starboard locker looked like before I pulled up the side/bottom of it:



And here's what it looked like with the panel removed and the water heater about to be taken out:



I couldn't actually get the water heater to come up through that hole. It was about 3/4" too large to fit. The exhaust hose on the starboard side of the engine gets in the way. So I had to remove the whole cover from the water heater. Once the cover was off the pieces came right out.

The leak got the entire electrical connection area soaking wet. It's a wonder it didn't trip the breaker. Or worse, electrocute one of us. Here's the mess it made:



The leak is from a hairline crack in the weld around one of the water connections:



Hopefully the replacement will be here today/tomorrow and I'll have time to get it reinstalled for the weekend.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista