www.iFourWinns.com

So, if you saw my thread on the fuel issue...I got old out and filled with E free 93 octane and two pints of seafoam (might need more). I have removed and cleaned carb twice. I am thinking the idle circuit is still clogged but am unsure and would like y'alls thoughts.

It is a reman'd engine and will start and stay idling if I advance the timing way too much (about 18*) but as soon as I drop it down to 10*, it MIGHT run for another 3 seconds, then it stalls.

The reason why I pointed out it is a fresh built reman is that, there is a decal on the damper for timing. I am curious if it could be in the wrong position. My tach does not function as I am unsure which wire I need to be looking for an where it needs to go (besides the gauge itself). So I am not sure what my RPM's are at but, when I drop it to 10*, it sounds like it is dropping to about 400 RPM.

You think it is a carb issue (still dirty)? I am trying to find a shop around me that does ultrasonic cleaning just so I can be sure.

Thank you gents

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

you can check the damper by putting the number one cylinder at top dead center that should put you at the zero mark on the damper also you will need the tach to tell the rpm after you get the timing set you will need to adjust the idle speed you can run a new wire to the tach from neg side of coil to the dash that will tell you if the tach is working

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1989 245 vista
5.7 cobra

Roger that. I'll do that to check the tach...if the gauge is out, faria a good substitute? It'll look out of place on that dash with the factory instruments
When I found TDC I honestly didn't pay attention to damper and didn't notice a decal until I got engine started and saw it with the timing light. When I moved the dizzy to bring the decal closer to timing mark on block...the idle got slower and slower. I am guessing these should idle at about 600rpm? I've go the carb removed and soaking right now. Probably get it back on tomorrow...maybe later tonight and will also run a wire from - coil to guage and report back.

Thank you sir

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

Most Chevy harmonic dampers have a slot across it at the TDC position, can you mark that with white paint?
6* BTDC is right for this engine, if you are using premium gas.
And yes the idle should be about 600, any higher and it can make shifting to neutral difficult.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

It is possible that the timing mark you are looking at bears no resemblance to reality. SBC dampers are known to slip on their rubber padding, causing timing errors. Listen to the engine as it idles. It's hard to describe in words what an engine sounds like when it's timing is too far retarded, but for lack of a better description it kinda sounds like it's lugging even when there's no load on the engine. The exhaust will be louder and more labored sounding. When it's advanced, it will quiet down, and if you go too far it will randomly misfire at idle.

6* still good for a vortec? Not sure if it would differ between that and a standard 4.3. Ok, Ill look for that slot and mark it with my little white paint pen. I got that just to do timing...very visible!
Off subject but just out of curiosity, why are stern drives more difficult to shift into reverse than an outboard? More rotating mass?

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

They should not be more difficult to shift into reverse than an outboard.


However, if you have the old Cobra with a "clutch dog", then they have shift dogs that engage with a 5deg angle (depending on model year). They don't want to disengage (back to neutral) if there is a load on them. So they added the ESA module which give a quick reduction in engine RPM to let the shift dogs release to neutral.

If you are having difficulty shifting to reverse, than you probably have a shift cable problem (or out of adjustment).

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Ok, that's exactly what I was hearing, you did a good job explaining the sound . Yeah I think that decal is in no way accurate. I think the engine builder just stuck it on there at some random spot! I will remove that decal (never seen that anyways) and reset timing.

Thanks guys, I report back

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

I had it on the water Friday night to set timing and test it...never left the dock really because of idle issue but I did put it in REV and FOR and it shifting smooth in and out of gear and neutral. I was just curious. On that POS 195 SD I had before with a 3.7 and Alpha 1 it was REALLY tough to get into neutral from FOR. I usually had to cut the engine off then shift it.

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

Got carb together and bolted back on. Started it up and moved distributor until it was smooooth as silk. Still not sure what my RPM's were at, hadn't spent time to hook back up the tach wire to NEG on coil. BUT, I got it idling way better than before and was able to find a sweet spot in the timing which was still too far advanced, according to that decal which---I also didn't take off like I said I would and find the factory groove in damper like suggested. I know Im horrible.
Ill take it to lake tomorrow with timing light and do that.

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

take a look at this pic...it might help.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sbp82qvwo4m1l ... 0marks.jpg

This is exactly what mine look like and is from the OMC shop manual.
About the shifting, if it shifts stiff into reverse, then you may have a cable adjustment issue, or the bellcrank in the pivot housing might be getting sticky and has water deposits built up behind it. The drive has a gasket between the upper gear housing and the pivot housing. It doesn't always seal perfectly (you are supposed to coat both sides with OMC gasket sealer). If it doesn't you can get water in the area behind the bellcrank and that can leave deposits and crud that restrict its travel. I take the drive off each seaon and pack that area with OMC triple guard grease. That has more or less solved that issue. For a Cobra to shift properly you must:
1) get the idle down to 600
2) have a good shift cable with less than 2.5 lbs of drag
3) have the cable set up properly using the special OMC tools or similar, and shift rod height must be correct too
4) Clean and lubed bellcrank
5) ESA system must be operational
6) remote shifter cable must be adjusted at the engine bellcrank
7) remote control should not have slop and wear

If all these things are attended to yes the Cobra will shift with 2 fingers and yes cone clutch fans it shifts as smooth as a Volvo, if set up right. Makes an Alpha seem like a bucket of bolts....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Yeah something was wrong with that Alpha...crap, something was wrong with that whole set up. So glad I got rid of it and didn't have it but for a month.

So far, I think I got good easy shifting. When I had it on the water, I had it both in fwd and rev and it shifting smoothly. Of course, the idle was all jacked up so we'll see how it goes once I get that squared away.

I need to get that tach wire hooked up (I assume that is the one of two that go to NEG on coil) and see what RPM I am at now, then go from there.
Thanks Lou

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

Get yourself a good engine analyzer (tach/dwell/volts/ohms) the dash tach is not accurate enough to set either the idle mixture (lean roll/rich roll method from the old days) or the idle speed.
Since you will probably ask what's that:
start with the idle at about 600, dwell and timing set.
Screw in one mixture screw till the engine speed drops, then out till it drops. You want to set it between those points (fastest idle), do the same with the other idle mixture screw. Then go back and re-adjust the idle. I try to keep mine as low as possible.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Yep; those Alphas are clunky for sure! Problem is that most people ease them into gear instead of one swift move. Nothing like floating in the cove with my ears underwater and hearing the "braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa>clunk<" of some skipper shifting into reverse. I love my Bravo 3 though... first cone clutch drive I've ever had. The only way I know it went into gear is that I start moving

Yeah, I hear that at the ramps I go to. My buddy has a bass boat with a hot foot and it kills me when he shifts it slow WHILE giving it throttle....I tell him a new lower unit is going to be 2k. I guess he's got more money to burn than I do!

The only thing Ill have to keep in mind and modify on my ESA circuit is adding the resistors and diodes because I have the "Hot Spark" ignitor

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1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"