www.iFourWinns.com

@ Graham - we have the same situation with VP parts here in Oz - sometime 4 times the price for the same item in the USA! I have been regularly buying from Marine Parts Express in the US. As an example a $9 VP oil filter in the US is $45 here, $9 VP fuel filter $53... some things are a little better - an impeller kit is only around 2.5 times the US price.

Talk about copping a gouging!

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Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

If you don't know if it was run in salt 100 % and the boat is 8 years old for sure check them mine were clogging at 5-6 seasons, if that gasket at the joint fails the salt will ruin the engine.....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Can you elaborate on this LouC? Which gasket are you referring too?

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Walter

2003 248 Vista - VP 5.0 GXi
2009 Toyota Tundra SR5 5.7L 4x4

The one between the riser and manifold...if you get enough corrosion on those mating surfaces the gasket won't seal and salt water can get into the exhaust passage and into the cylinders

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I'm sure Lou means the gasket between the manifold and riser. On VP's, that is a "wet joint"; water travels through it into the riser. The gasket is in effect acting as 2 gaskets; it stops water leaking to the outside but more crucially also to the inside of the manifold where the exhaust gases are ( and a direct route to the exhaust valves/ cylinder bore). The gasket sealing width is quite narrow, quite scary when you look at it !. If you've got rust stains on the outside, it's failing on the outside; if it's failing at the same tine to the inside, well, that's when trouble starts. The torque on the bolts needs checking on a regular basis to compensate for "creep" of the gasket under load, to stop salt water from penetrating the joint and causing rusting/ leaking. I changed the gaskets on mine after 5 seasons in salt; on strip down they were showing some deterioration. I took the manifolds off the same time; it mde it easier to clean the mating surfaces. The manifolds and risers were OK, I alternate between using Neutrasalt and a fresh water flush after each trip.

Later Mercruiser engines have a "dry joint" between the manifold and riser, with an external connection between them. Not only is the gasket face wider, if it does fail there's no water to enter the manifold. I've often wondered if it's possible to convert the VP ones to such a set up; there are a few faily large unused tapped holes in the riser after all and the manifold drain hole could be used to feed the water to the riser.I've not done anything about it though !

Graham

Thanks for explanation guys. My port side manifold has some light signs of rust. I'm starting to think it may be the gasket being that the manifolds and risers are not even 3 years old. I think i will just replace the gasket and make sure those screws are nice and tight.

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Walter

2003 248 Vista - VP 5.0 GXi
2009 Toyota Tundra SR5 5.7L 4x4

Thanks all for the details and response. I am definitely going to pull them apart when I get back from vacation.

@paul - you mentioned a "Closed System" conversion. What is involved in that?

@Graham - thanks for the detail write up!

@Lou - I ALWAYS flush the engine after we have been out as we are in salt water 99% of the time. I run the water through the engine and almost always start it up in my driveway while flushing it. Just recently (did not know about the product) I have been using some salt away.

With no knowledge of the history prior to my purchase, at a minimum they need to be pulled off and checked. What would make the manifold and riser bad? Too much rust? If the gasket is starting to leak on the outside, wouldn't the gasket just need to be replaced?

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2010 Sea Hunt Triton 220 "Big Whiskey"
2003 FW Freedom 180 Volvo Penta 4.3GL/SX-M "It'll Do Four Now" (Sold)
2012 Avalanche LTZ 4X4

If you haven't torqued up those 4 bolts on a regular basis, you'll be surprised how much they might have slackened off ! The torque setting is only 30 ft lbs

Graham

It depends on the state of the mating faces. They need to be flat "to a tolerance 0f 0.1mm" according to the VP instructions for the gaskets ( mine were done an year earlier than I remembered, in the Winter of '08-09), they recommend using 80 grit sandpaper and a sanding block to prepare the surfaces once the remains of gasket have been removed.

Graham

The mating faces can rust to the point where they wont seal, and will leak. In addition, the water passages can rust thru and let water in a cylinder, and the cooling passages can clog with rust and overheat the exhaust hose and engine....
If you neglect em, bad things happen.
This is one of the reasons many prefer outboards in salt

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

If you are going to pull them yourself then just buy new gaskets and pull them yourself to check them out. If you are not running hot now, than chances are you will be fine throughout your vacation.



You should understand that not all manifolds and risers are built the same, I recommended staying away from GLM, HGE and the like. (not sure about this BAROMC brand, I would google search it) I always recommend springing for OEM or something made in the USA, you wont regret it! I have read SOOOOO many stories about crap manifolds leaking right out of the box or shortly after due to poor craftsmanship on mating surfaces and what not.

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99 Horizon 190 - Volvo 5.7
06 Sea Doo RXP (79 GPS) / 05 Sea Doo GTX Limited (74 GPS)

I agree on not buying the cheapest aftermarket manifolds/risers if you need em, because if the mating surfaces are not machined flat, then even though they are new, the gaskets can leak, defeating the purpose of replacement if needed. I'd go with OSCO if you can find em local, shipping can be expensive because they are HEAVY...a manifold and riser for a 4.3 is about 45 lbs per side.

I have the one piece manifold/riser for my old OMC 4.3 and they do have one good aspect, being one piece for the whole thing they have no joint to leak. But there is no way to check for clogging unless you remove the whole thing (no big deal, just buy a set of manifold to head gaskets, loosen and slide down the exhaust hose on to the Y pipe and it comes right off).

This is a fact of life with I/Os with raw water cooled manifolds in salt, 5 years, you will have enough rust to get clogging, that can cause the rubber exhaust hoses to overheat, and the engine to overheat. You have to factor that into your maintenance expenses.

This is why, if I ever got another boat with an I/O, I'd want a full closed cooling system, that includes the manifolds. That way the only part exposed to corrosive sea water is the risers, and they are not a big deal to replace.

Finally, this is also why I would not advise a salt water boater to get a boat new enough to have cat converters in the exhaust, I said this 3 years ago when they came on the scene, they are going cause the eventual exhaust replacements to be VERY expensive, over 1000 per side, and if you don't do it, bye bye engine sooner or later....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Lou,

The catalytic converter equiipped engines have ( I'm sure I read) an aluminium manifold/ riser protected with anodes.

;http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/VP_Schematics/GAS/5.7GiCE-300-J_5.7GiCE-300-JF_5.7GXiCE-J_5.7GXiCE-JF_5.7GiCE-300-M_5.7GiE-300-MF_5.7GXiCE-M_5.7GXiCE-MF/INTAKE%20AND%20EXHAUST%20SYSTEM/Exhaust.pdf

I imagine the elbox piece is also aluminium, that's protected by an anode as well. they may well last longer than a cast iron one, especially if the engine itself is FWC and not passing any rusty debris into the manifolds.

The catalytic converter seems to be a seperate piece. sandwiched betweeen the two.

Graham

Interesting, but I don't see any way that this design could be made to have the manifolds on the closed cooling loop, it looks like the cooling passages are on the periphery of the joint between the halves of the manifold. These are like the one piece design I have except the upper section is split in half to accommodate the cat converter unit. I do agree that if they are aluminum, with an anode, they well may hold up to corrosion better than raw cast iron.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II