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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Tadpole

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:00 pm
Posts: 2
Hey all, brand new member here...just found this website and I wish I would have found it a long time ago.

Boat history: 1996 245 Sundowner, 7.4 DP GSI (multi port injected 454 chevrolet), 210 hours, I've owned it for 6 years now. Had 80 hours when purchased, always inside stored. Locally used and trailered to local lakes, etc. Meticulously maintained. Every year when winterized it gets an oil/filter change/fuel filter change/outdrive removal/inspection/fluid change/drained and flushed with antifreeze mix/ remaining fuel treated (ethanol blend stabil) fuel system winterized with "fogging" solution (fuel with 2strokeoil with stabil). Has been a GREAT boat. At 3000 feet (Lake Powell in Utah) will go 47 mph. Have changed
plugs/wires/cap/rotor once just for maintenance around 150 hours or so...no issues at that time, just for pm.

Here is the issue. Boat ran absolutely flawless the first 4 years of ownership. We usually only take it out about 6 or 7 times per year. Last year (2011) while at Lake Powell, during long continuous runs (45 minutes or more) we would be cruising along at around 30mph (3000+ rpms) and the boat would just act like it was running out of gas, or as if there was a fuel restiction. Most of the time it would continue idling if I throttled down, otherwise it would backfire/pop once or twice until I throttled down. If I remember correctly, it did die outright once or twice. My fuel pump(s) were screaming and couldn't tell which one it was, also both were hot to the touch. Engine temp during these episodes was fine. Between 210 and 240. After shutting down engine then sitting for a while checking things, making sure nothing came unplugged, etc. I would start it back up (it would ALWAYS start back up) and try to get going again. Sometimes it would just bog back down immediately, and sometimes it would act as if everything was normal until a random time later that day or the next day. In 2011 on this particular Lake Powell trip, it happened multiple times per day, every day. When I got home from that trip, I changed the fuel filter, which had no dirt or rust in it, then took it out a couple times more and experienced the same issues at least once every time out that year, so at the end of the year I went ahead and replaced BOTH fuel pumps (expensive) and put it away for the winter without having a chance to take it out and test drive it.

Fast forward to this year. For other reasons, we have not had a chance to use the boat at all until this last week when we returned once again to Lake Powell. Anxious to try my fix out, but not wanting to ruin the trip, I never did any full throttle tests, but did get up to 40 once or twice just to stretch it's legs. Wednesday we went the whole day without an issue and figured it was fixed. Thursday we 25 miles down lake and tubed and played around once there all evening and never had an issue. Friday we went back uplake the 25 miles back to the marina pulling kids on tubes the whole way. Normally cruising around 25-30, but with some speed runs up to 35-40 sometimes, and it never had any issue.
THEN, we filled up at the Marina with 20 gallons of 91 octane marina gas. (Ethanol blend) We pulled out of the marina and started heading back downlake the 25 miles to our camping spot. About 15 or 20 minutes away from the marina, cruising at just over 30mph, my boat suddenly exhibits the same condition as last year...as if it ran out of gas. I throttled down and it continued idling. I throtted up and although smooth, it started to power up, then bogged down again. No backfire or pop. Temp was still fine, all other gauges fine, fuel pumps NOT screaming, and cool. I turned the key off, did the usual searching around for anything abnormal...checked the oil, checked all connections, and felt the fuel pump(s) (both of them). Both were COOL to the touch this time (last year both were hot when it did this). So we started it back up and I listened and the pumps were both quiet, which is also different than last year....last year they were screaming and hot. Once underway, I kept it cautiously under 30mph, and for the rest of Friday, all day Saturday and all of Sunday on the way back the 25 miles, it never exhibited the failure again, but I never "stretched it's legs" after that. Now I wish I would have tried just to see what it did.

Any ideas? did I get a bad fuel pump? A bubble of water in the marina gas? Just a random hiccup? It only happened the one time the whole 5 days out on the water, approx 25-30 hours of use over 5 days. Anyone else ever experience anything like this on one of these machines? ie: Is it semi normal to experience something like this occasionally? I've NEVER used any other conditioners in the fuel except Stabil, and ONLY at winterization time. Nothing was added to this years first fill up, nor at the marina. weather was extremely hot (100degrees) during the week, and water temp 83 degrees. Only happened THE ONE TIME during a long continuous run, but never did it again during any other long run, even over 1 hour @ about 30mph on the last day coming home?

Any ideas appreciated. If this just happens every now and then to others, I would LOVE to hear about it, and maybe my confidence will be restored. We love the boat.

Thanks!
Randy


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:03 pm 
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email admin your custom rank

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:03 am
Posts: 2238
Location: Winthrop, Ma.
You wrote "Engine temp during these episodes was fine. Between 210 and 240." Thats way to high, it should be about 170-175, depending on open or closed system.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:05 pm 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
Have you checked/replaced the anti-siphon valve ?
Debris or corrosion due to water in the fuel are the two most common culprits that cause these valves to malfunction. If you think you have a malfunctioning anti-siphon valve you can remove it and install a threaded nipple into the fuel line to see if the problem goes away. If this resolves the problem you can try cleaning the valve with carburetor cleaner or by blowing air through it with an air hose. If it is clean you should be able to blow air through it in one direction only. If the valve is bad don't leave the fuel line unprotected without an anti-siphon valve, replace the faulty one with a new one immediately. A bad valve could not only limit the pressure the pump develops but also limit the delivered volume. Results may be hesitation, lack of full throttle consistently, idling issues etc. Cheap enough to change out if you have not already.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Tadpole

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:00 pm
Posts: 2
Paul I:
Sorry...I meant between 110 and 140 (on the gauge), not 210 and 240!...It never even gets to 170 on the gauge, ever. Have I been running too COOL all these years?....

Capn Morgan:
I did forget to mention that last year when I replaced the pumps I did pull the floor cover out and inspected the tank, removed the pickup unit, stuffed rags down inside to completely dry out my previously siphoned and drained tank. (made sure I got all the rags back out also!) I did not find any water last year at all, and I was able to blow thru the anti-siphon valve one way and not the other, so I assumed it was ok. I don't like leaving my tank completely empty, so I put 20 gallons back in, and treated it with stabil (ethanol blend).
Each spring, I usually siphon out the previous years gas by putting a smaller diameter clear rubber tube inside the fuel supply line coming from the tank, then applying a little compressed air into the tank filler (vented of course...not to fully pressurize the tank) to get the siphon going, and once going I can fill up all my gas cans that way, so I always figured the valve was ok if I could do that...but now you've got me wondering if it is a little restricted. Rather than testing it again, can I just buy one and replace it? Where does one purchase one of those valves? I will likely put that on my list of things to do regardless. Wish I would have just replaced it last year now.


Anyone ever have any issues with fuel pump relays malfunctioning every now and then sporadically? In talking personally with another boater with a fuel injected engine, he mentioned that he had a fuel pump relay that would overheat and "disconnect" on him every now and then...and then would run fine a while later once cooled off?


THANKS!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:32 pm 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
You can get the valve at many marine stores, dealers and on-line. Or you could just put a temp valve in their like I mentioned and see if that fixes the problem. Then order the correct valve. They are about $14 or less.

http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/MOE-03 ... QAod5EhCZA

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista
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Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:34 pm 
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email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 5667
Location: Austin, TX
110-140 is what mine ran without a thermostat. runs like crap

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Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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