www.iFourWinns.com

Thanks Lou.

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Alexj



1995 Four Winns Horizon 190
OMC 5.0 RL

Lou, I read your procedures and read the OMC manual, and they are in 100% agreement. The only thing I can't find is how much of the -100 AF to buy. Is 5-6 gallons sufficient? I am starting to get everything together to be able to winterize by the end of October. I have the oil, filter, StaBil, fuel filter/separator ready to go. Just didn't know how much AF to buy...

Thanks for all the info!

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1988 215 Sundowner 5.7L OMC

6 should do it. In your case manual filling with the right -100 stuff makes sense because you have a new motor , right?
I get 5 for mine but the 4.3 V6 takes a bit less than the V8.
What you'll notice is no rusty water out the exhaust when you start it in the spring.

Technologic80 so glad you checked those drains!
See the thing is many people use those kits and some don't have a problem because the engine ran long enough and the Thermo stayed open long enough to let most of the water out. But most who did not have a problem, did not realize just how close they may have come.
They can work on engines with closed cooling. Not if you are hoping the Thermo will open on the water hose. On mine sometimes it will not open at idle in the water till I run it on plane for a bit. Once they start to get sticky you get below normal temps.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Yep, new motor in May, 54 hours on it now. A few more hours this weekend if the wind holds down. Doing it this way by backfilling manually seems like a no-brainer to ensure the system is full of AF. Even the video on YouTube from West Marine says that using the AF tank method and sucking through raw water system can leave pockets of water, and hypothetically the -100F will mix with the water and make a solution that has less capacity but should do the trick...This method leaves much les to chance it seems.

Another question, does it matter if I change the drive gear fluid now or in the spring? I am going to pull the drive and leave it in the heated garage on a stand for the winter, so don't know if it matters. I am going to pull the impeller so it doesn't sit in position and get shaped. (Gives me a chance to inspect it too.)

In the spring as preventative maintenance, I am going to replace the bellows (at the beginning of season, they looked ok, but did notice there were a few cracks in between when extended now), check the gimbal bearing, and replace the trim sender. The shift cables are not as smooth as I would like and have some resistance, so I am going to replace them as well and do a full adjustment.

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1988 215 Sundowner 5.7L OMC

What you can do is pull the bottom drain plug and then check for milky gear oil. If you see any then get the leak fixed now, if it's good then you can change now or in the spring.
If you are doing the shift cables try to round up the 3 OMC tools that make the job much easier and take a look at the instructions and service bulletins on the Midnight Wolf website.
When you do the cables keep in mind you have to also adjust the cable from the remote control to the shift bell crank on the engine, in addition to the one from the shift bell crank to the out drive.
About the trim senders, the OE ones are no longer available but Sierra makes an aftermarket one. Replacing it is difficult but if you have the pivot off to the bellows and shift cables it will be much easier. Replace that hose that goes from the pivot to the transom while you are in there.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Yes, the vast majority of the raw water bypasses the engine and goes right out the manifolds. Only a portion goes through the engine, and only after it is hot. You would probably have to run 50 gals of antifreeze through one of those kits to get proper concentration in the engine block!

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

You can test this for yourself in a way if you have an IR heat gun. If the temp guage is reading 160, or a little over and the temp reading of the intake manifold right under the thermo housing is at least 150-155 the thermo is probably open, and if you feel the big hose from the thermo housing to the water pump and its too hot to hold, then it is, that means that hot water is being pulled out of the engine which is the only way that method works. If the temp reading is under 150 and that hose is merely warm its not open. And then the thermo gets hit by cool antifreeze and guess what happens, it starts to close. That's why its risky.
If it were up to me every inboard would have at least half closed cooling system (block cooled but not manifolds). Some can use a full system if the raw water pump can flow enough water to cool the bigger heat exchanger you'd need to include the manifolds.
This would increase cost a bit (only about $800-1000) though and on the price of a 40,000+ boat what does that represent? Not much. It would make the engine last much longer because the inside won't corrode, it will run at a temp closer to its design temp (more efficient, better for the EFI+cat converter exhaust engines we have now), you won't have scale and rust buildup causing chronic overheating down the road and chronic sticky thermostats, that never close all the way (too cool running). Your winterizing would be much easier. No one would lose an engine because it froze. In fact standard closed cooling would give I/Os, which are the most work for sure of all marine propulsion systems, an advantage over outboards in longevity. OBs are less work but they corrode internally just as much.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

lot's of great information guys, thank you!
I used Sierra antifreeze before since it is supposed to be less toxic than regular antifreeze, they are picky about what ends up in the finger lakes (some are public water supply) so I have used sierra in the past, is this OK?
when I ask about antifreeze for boats at the local parts stores they try to sell me the RV stuff, which is good for water systems on RVs or boats and good for -40, but the stuff is prediluted, so I won't be using that.

about the drive, never pulled it in the past but it makes perfect sense, looking for an engine crane now so I can use that to remove the drive alone before I store it.

The Sierra stuff is propylene glycol and thats fine, as long as the freeze level is low enough. In fact some auto parts stores sell a propylene glycol hydrometer made by Sierra to check the strength of the antifreeze mixture (ones for ethylene glycol won't work). I have found that by measuring with the Sierra hydrometer the West Marine stuff rated for -100 burst temp has a freeze temp of -60 which is way more than enough. -100 burst temp means it will slush up but not burst pipes at -100. I tried the -60 burst temp stuff in the freezer at zero and it slushed up but did not expand the plastic bottle. I'd rather have it stay liquid though even though the -100 stuff is much more expensive.
As I've said in previous posts I do think that adding the right AF, the right way, helps reduce corrosion and I think that's one of the things that helped my old salt water motor last as long as it has.
When I have had the thermo housing off to change 'stats and the water pump off for replacement I didn't see flaking rust inside the engine to any great extent. And I don't get rusty water out the exhaust when I start it up in the spring.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

You shouldn't need an engine crane, drives typically only weigh 60-90 lbs. If your good at buildin stuff, build a drive cradle (I used 2x4's and casters). With the boat level, slide the cradle under the drive, remove bolts and associated pieces, wheel the drive away.

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1996 205 Sundowner DLX
5.0FL Volvo SX Cobra
Tow Veh: 2012 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X