What oil?

deafwish · **Posted:** Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:27 pm

ric wrote:

MC and VP have ties to oil companies so what they tell you to run depends on who's writing them a check that year.

Where on-line did you read this, or is this yet another 'educated' guess of yours?

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:44 pm

ric wrote:

MC and VP have ties to oil companies so what they tell you to run depends on who's writing them a check that year.

On the otherhand, General Motors does not. I listen to them.

What would GM say if you told them that you were going to put that engine in a boat, we're going to run it uphill at 3500 rpm all day long. That's not automotive use so you can't go by oil recommendation for auto use. The engine in my 98 Jeep is 16 years old, has 148,000 miles on it and runs great, but it rarely tops 3000 rpm. Multi vis oil is fine then. High rpm, too cool running temps etc were not what they were designed for .
Not only that, due to issues with wet exhaust, its not that uncommon for engines to suck small amounts of water in the exhaust ports which rusts exhaust valves, and that eventually causes low compression and rough running.
Finally, if an engine is not propped properly (the equivalent of pulling up hills in overdrive) the heat in the combustion chamber will tulip valves and also cause low compression.

It is continuous high rpm use that shears down motor oil and then you lose protection. I would love to see testing done with different oils so that we could come to a more objective conclusion on what to use.

deafwish · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:41 am

LouC wrote:

What would GM say if you told them that you were going to put that engine in a boat, we're going to run it uphill at 3500 rpm all day long.

Not just up a hill - This is equivalent to a car being on a chassis dyno at full load, all day long.

ric · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:50 am

No it's not. Constant use lasts forever. It's the stop and go that tears up bearings, rings, and seals. Why do you think you NEVER see a marine engine that burns oil.

That's an old wives tale that marine engines are used harder than cars. Stop and go in your boat every day 100 times a day. They run cooler, less stress due to constant acceleration, and NEVER see the true redline like car. The real redline of something like my motor, a 5.0 Vortec? 6000-6500. Our boats never see past 4800

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

I rarely see a marine engine that burns oil because that comes from one of two places: worn rings or worn valve guides and high manifold vacuum. Our engines are rarely around ring-wearing dust. They also typically don't have enough time on them to wear valve guides. What they do have to deal with, as Lou mentioned, is high load for extended times, as well as a wide variation in operating temps over a short period of time. basically, everything that stresses oil badly. Marine engines are subject to much harsher life than when they are in an automobile in every way except for the kind of wear that creates oil consumption. One of the #1 causes of failure is bearing wear due to oil failure. I've seen many a marine engine with rods peeking through the side of the block.
On second thought, I guess the end result would be excessive oil consumption even in that case (or lack of a case, as it were). The difference is the oil ends up in the bilge.

ric · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:27 pm

Oil failure is due to lack of changing the oil. Once a year isn't enough. Every 3 months or 30 hours. How many people change it just once a year? Many.

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:42 pm

Ric, you mentioned earlier that one can use any viscosity oil as long as it's changed regularly. Try putting 0W20 in a highway tractor and send her out to work and see what happens. KABOOM!

In fact, most everything you've posted in this thread and all other engine related threads is total rubbish. How do I know this? I'm a licenced technician with multiple tradesman certificates in the field. Here in Canada to become a technician requires thousands of hours in an apprenticeship AND attending college. If you'd be so kind to scan and post your mechanical engineering degree, I will gladly stand down.

My only worry is that new members/boaters actually take your psychobabble as truth. Keep that in the Chap forum!

deafwish · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:39 am

^^^ LOL!
...and I perform technical training for Technicians like yourself on oil/ lubrication!

Winter Sux - Didn't you get the Facebook update that all Gen Y'ers know everything?! :lol:

ric · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:35 am

Technical training? That means nothing. The guy in India you call for tech support is technical trained, and they don't know jack. How many "Marine Mechanics" screw things up on a daily occurrence? Too many.

GM recommends 10w30 for our engine if you want to get technical. Higher the oil weight does not equal higher the protection. Technically.

My generation has learned just because you've been to school or training to learn something, it doesn't mean you know it. Because usually they don't. I'm an upper level computer engineer for a living and specialize in linux and asterisk programming for phone systems (also microsoft exchange, etc). No "training". No college. And make a damn good income. I can't tell you how many idiots with computer science degrees and whatnot I turn down in the hiring process because they can't pass a simple test that even a monkey at geek squad could.

TFD2001 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:48 am

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

I guess Ric hasn't heard of the fact that manufacturers have to meet a Corporate Average Fuel Economy target, and the best way to do that is to use lighter weight oil.
All of us that recognize it's not worth sacrificing engine life for fuel economy know it; that's all that matters. Best wishes for your engine budget, my friend.

LouC · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:47 pm

With all the dead horse beating, wouldn't it be nice to know, does a conventional multi-vis shear down out of grade under marine use? Does a syn multi grade hold up well enough (probably so because they don't to use VI improvers). Is the Merc oil really better (at least its been tested and meets their warrantee requirements) Same thing for Volvo.

Years back Consumers Reports hired a lab to test multi vis oils and see which ones held their viscosity better. And there were differences between the oil. Interestingly they also tested relative wear of a 3,000 mile interval and a 6,000 mile interval for taxi use and found that it didn't increase wear significantly. I guess because the taxi engines (Chevy 4.3s in Impalas, this was back in the mid 90s) never cooled off LOL....

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:00 pm

kd4pbs wrote:

:roll:
I guess Ric hasn't heard of the fact that manufacturers have to meet a Corporate Average Fuel Economy target, and the best way to do that is to use lighter weight oil.
All of us that recognize it's not worth sacrificing engine life for fuel economy know it; that's all that matters. Best wishes for your engine budget, my friend.

Perfect. Someone other than me has knowledge of C.A.F.E. ratings. Go nuts googling that ric. You might learn a thing or two. No wait; I digress, you know everything. :lol:

taz42169 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:23 pm

OK, I'll say it...RIC, you are NOT ALLOWED TO PURCHASE A 248! :twisted:

ric · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:48 pm

Higher weight does not = less molecular sheering.

Just sayin.

Oil weight has to do with viscosity and heat. Heat, something we don't have in marine engines.

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