Water in the Crank Case... Doh!

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

Hi all, I'm a newbie here but from reading your posts this looks like a nice helpful forum. Hoping I can learn as I go here and become a productive member of the forum some day!
Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how to deal with investigating water in my crank case. I just bought my 98 FourWinns 180, 4.3 VP. Bought it from an auction very cheap, which should have raised alarm bells, but I'm a gambler... and now I'm paying for it

Just received the boat from transporter on Saturday and on preliminary inspection pulled the oil dipstick to find that it's covered in white creamy sludge to the top of the dipstick, indicating the crank case has water in it. What I'm wondering is:

a) could the boat possibly have been submerged, and therefore there is just water in the engine due to it coming in the carb and oil filler spout? Should I just drain the oil, flush the engine with something (is there a known product out there for this?), change the filter and refill the oil and see what happens?

b) if it is due to mechanical failure, where's the best place to start diagnosing, and how do I go about that? What are the possible causes?

c) is a VP 4.3L just a chevy 4.3 out of a S-10 truck? if so I can likely pick one up for under $1000 and just swap it out, changing over the necessary marine equipment?

Thanks in advance for any input!

C.

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:32 am

It could be from it not being winterized which would cause a cracked block. Other causes are a blown headgasket and failed (rusted out) exhaust manifolds/risers.
You can swap the motor with an auto engine but you have to use all the marine accessories like the starter, alternator, fuel system, etc. You also need to add marine head gaskets, core plugs and circulating pump, the auto stuff will not last.

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

Thanks LouC. The boat is originally from Texas, so I'm thinking (hoping) poor winterization isn't a factor here). I plan on swapping over all external components from the marine engine. I was looking on another site that says that "Volvo Penta added a gear-driven balance shaft in the center of the 4.3GL to counteract the motor's natural vibration". What is this balance shaft, and where is it located specifically? is this an internal thing, or is it a dampener on the front of the engine (ie. external)?

Stupid question time... how would the exhaust manifold risers let water into the engine? water comes back up the exhaust port?

Will a compression test on all cylinders tell me if i have a bad headgasket?

rpengr · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:12 am

With that much water in crankcase, I would suspect submersion. You could have wet valves, cylinders, camshaft, etc. And you also don't know if it is salt water or fresh.

I would suggest taking this engine apart from the top down as soon as possible (remove manifolds, and heads) to see what condition you have, and if it is worth rebuilding or if you should replace.

Check for signs of water in the intake manifold, carburator bowl, distributer, etc to see if it had been submerged. Even if submerged, you may be able to rebuild it into a good engine if it has not gotten too much rust in the wrong places.

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:24 am

Even if from Tx, still could have frozen, all it takes is one night @ 28*F for 6-8 hrs. Boat US insurance did a survey and found most frozen engines claims came from Cali believe it or not, not up north. Freeze damage look for cracks in the lifter valley, intake, sides of block and manifolds. On the block and manifolds the crack will look like a hairline crack with rust trails.

You gonna run this a while or flip it? If you re keeping it I vote for a new GM crate 4.3. I'm not a gambler I have been wrenching for 40 years and I HATE fixing old crap and chasing problems. Fix it once and right and boat in safety.

When mine needs new power it's a new crate engine, closed cooling.

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

So I just looked at the carb, no evidence of water in it or the distributor nor the ps pump reservoir... There is still water in the manifolds and impeller housing. Took out a spark plug and it had condensation on it... I'm thinking I should replace the oil and do a compression test on it? Or is there any point, at this point?

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

PS... Are there any good threads on removing the engine?

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:48 pm

Most of the members here don't get that deep into mechanical stuff, except for me and maybe a few others, so I advise you head on over to
http://www.iboats.com
and go into the volvo penta I/O section, there are people there who have done it all.
The problem with water in the oil, is if it's not from the manifold/riser joint, then its either a blown HG or freeze cracked motor. You can try running it on the water hose, get it good and warmed up and change the oil and filter. Then run it again, pull the plugs and crank it over. If you see evidence of water in the cylinders, then check the manifolds/risers. They can leak from that gasket between the riser and manifold. If there is no water in the cylinders after running it, my bet is on a freeze cracked engine. Blown HG, possible, and if its not cracked, you could replace the HGs and manifold gaskets and see if it continues to get water in the oil.

After running it do a compression test. If it's OK (all 6 between about 140-160 or so) then it's more likely a cracked engine. A bad HG will usually give lower compression test readings. If you get a pair of low cylinders right next to each other it could be a bad HG. No harm in trying, at this point. But you're gonna need an engine shop manual, this is not like taking a Briggs & Stratton 5 hp lawn mower engine apart.....

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:04 pm

Without the history, who knows what's what. Change the oil and filter and see what happens.

It's worth a try.

John :mrgreen:

fiznuka · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:16 pm

This problem sounds very familiar. When I purchased my boat I had the same problem crankcase full of water. Turned out to be a cracked block ( 4" long above 7-8 cylinders). If it has that much water it is most likely a broken block under one of the heads. Remove the heads and visually inspect the mating surface you will see it if it is there. Good luck

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

So tonight I pulled all the plugs, only to find that 3 of 6 cylinders were full of water... Came pouring out! I cranked it over and even more rusty sludge water came out. At this point I've resigned myself to pulling the motor and searching for a good used or possibly rebuilt 4.3...

Thanks for all your suggestions, I'll likely be back with more questions, and hopefully a rebuild under my belt to share with the crowd.

LouC · **Posted:** Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:54 am

well...not so fast...you still don't know if the water came from the manifolds/risers, so check them first, look carefully at the joint, water can leak from a bad gasket right down into the cylinders. You might consider replacing the gaskets and try running it again if the manifolds and risers look good. If they are bad you have to change em anyway for a new engine, I'd be tempted to put on a new set, new gasket and run it and see what happens. It is also possible that the intake gaskets are bad. More commonly its the riser gasket. In salt water that is common and thats why we have to check em at least at 5 years.

Also before you take anything apart, do a compression test, it will give more info about a possible bad HG....

low comp then yes the engine has to come apart, if the manifolds look good, yes water probably not from there, but if the comp test is good but the manifolds are questionable, start there.

You always want to know the cause of the failure before another major investment. If the manifolds are bad and you put them on a good engine guess what will happen.....

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

So even tho water has been sitting in the cylinders for god knows how long, they might still be ok? I started compression testing last night and the tester broke. Also tried a leak down test, and heard air escaping from somewhere but couldn't pinpoint it. Sounded like a bit of gurgling at times but I can't be sure. I also may have been doing it wrong...

I'll pickup another compression tester and try that first, you make a good point about not putting bad risers on a new engine...

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

I forgot to mention something... last night while I was taking the stern drive off, I found a big plastic plug sitting in the exhaust port! Still has a Part number on it, 3853864? looks like the remnants of some sort of plastic plug, almost the size of a hockey puck? I’m thinking this could be the source of the problem, if it plugged the exhaust port enough to make the engine overheat, and either crack/warp the heads or blow a head gasket at the very least? Still doesn’t explain why the cylinders were full of water tho. I’m going to go further in troubleshooting before I rip the motor out.

ric · **Posted:** Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:12 am

1998 would be a Vortec 4.3 chevy engine. Yes standard car engine underneath all the marine bolt ons.

www.iFourWinns.com

Water in the Crank Case... Doh!

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