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| On plane dificulties https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1194 |
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| Author: | zeke [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | On plane dificulties |
My 2004 248 vista has a volvo gxi 5.0 engine with stock duoprop for that year (not sure of the size). It struggles to get on plane with moderate loads, It takes at least 15 seconds with 2 adults and literally minutes with 4 and sometimes not at all (full tank etc..). When there is bottom growth it is worse (I slip it, but pulled it out a week ago and power washed). I realize now that this boat is underpowered, but it is my first boat, purchased new in 2005 and I learned the hard way (sea trial with 2 of us, no water on board, 1/4 tank - seemed to plane great). Any suggestions of how I can improve my planing issue? |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:53 pm ] |
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Is the prop in good shape? How do you know it's stock? Are you trimming the drive properly? Yes, slime on the bottom will definitely affect speed. |
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| Author: | mkivbren [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
We have the same boat and same motor and I've had 3 beer guzzling buddies (>250lbs ea.) and my boat jumps right up on plane in no time. As Bill said check your prop, there's definitely something wrong somewhere. Does your motor sound like it's breaking up? I'd pull the plugs and look at them and check your oil making sure your not getting any water in the motor. Then possibly pull your fuel filter, and make sure it's not full of water (pour the fuel into a clear plastic dish and if there's water it will separate. If all seems well then start looking over the outdrive. Any vibrations or noises? |
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| Author: | zeke [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
thanks for the responses.... Bill, the prop is in good shape - small 'ding' last year that was repaired, otherwise healthy. Now that you mention it though, I'm not 100% sure it is stock. I only assumed because I bought the boat new from a FW dealer. I think I'm trimming OK - full down until up on plane and also lowering the tabs at about 2800 RPM to help get on plane. MK - that's encouraging that you're getting on plane quickly with the guzzlers on board - I have my share of guzzling buddies too! When I powerwashed the hull last week, I had the shop change oil/filter and fuel filter. They reported no problems, and the engine sounds good, no noises or vib's. It rev's fine in neutral, but as you say, there must be something wrong... |
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| Author: | mkivbren [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:19 pm ] |
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Do you get fuel from a good fuel source? I assume you do or is this the first time you've had the boat in for a while? How did this start, suddenly or over time? It sounds like your down on power pretty bad. I'd pull each plug and maybe replace each plug depending upon how they look. From there I'd do a compression test on the motor. I know - it's fun pulling out all those plugs but thats probably where I'd start. Is your oil pressure and water temp normal? I think as far as the prop goes, was it fine before? Maybe John can chime in hear but your motor probably makes more power than mine as mine is a Gi. I think you get direct port injection with the Gxi but I'm not positive. Definitely pull each plug to make sure you don't have a stuck injector if you have DPI. |
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| Author: | zeke [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm going to try to get to the boat tomorrow and checking the plugs will be job1. Oil pressure and water temp are normal, so hopefully it is only the plugs. I'm not mechanically inclined, so I just needed someone to tell me where to start - thanks MK. I'll let you know what I find. |
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| Author: | Graham R [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Even though the boat came new from a dealer, I wouldn't assume the props are the correct size; my boat initially came with the wrong size which affected ease of getting on plane (it should have had F5s, it had F6s) According to the FW website "Past specs", the 2004 248 should have F3s when fitted with the 5.0GXi motor. If it's fitted with anything "above" the F3s, the higher the number the worse it will be. Any growth on the props will affect their efficiency as well ( as I found last weekend, due to the lousy weather where I boat, I've only been out 3 times this season/ put on 4 engine hours, compared to the usual 50 - 60 hours !) As for trim, with the leg tucked in I find with my boat that having the tabs fully down ( i.e. bow down) brings the boat on the plane quicker. Once on the plane, bringing them up again and then only using them to correct side to side trim. Why do you only put the tabs down when you've reached 2800 rpm? Regards, Graham |
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| Author: | jvalich [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Definitely something is wrong. Things I'd do above what the mechanics have done (oil, and fuel filters). 1. Check the fuel filter yourself. I'd say it's at best a 50/50 shot that your mechanic actually "Checked" what was in the fuel filter by taking the time and pouring the contents into a clear container. 2. Plugs are cheap, change them out. While you are doing this, inspect the spark plug wires for corrosion. Here is a link to help read the spark plugs http://www.theultralightplace.com/sparkplugs.htm 3. Inspect/Change as needed the rotor and distributor cap. 4. You don't say where you boat, fresh or salt. But, after 3 years you are due to inspect the exhaust elbows. They are easy to remove and inspect. Drain the water from the exhaust by removing the lower water hose to the exhaust manifold. Loosen the clamps on the back of the exhaust elbow and slide off the exhaust pipe on the back of the elbow. Remove the bolts holding on the exhaust elbow to the manifold. Inspect the gasket surfaces and the inside of the elbows for bad spots and corrosion on the gasket surfaces. Replace the elbows by cleaning the gasket surfaces. Use Volvo gaskets WITH NO SEALANT! Use of sealant will definitely void any warranty you have. Torque the bolts to their proper force. Replace the exhaust host on the back of the elbow and the water hose on the exhaust manifold. Small leaks in the exhaust system can produce a lack of power because the water slowly damages the engine and you loose compression. I know this as I experienced it and had to repower. 5. Have the compression checked to assure the engine is producing the power it's supposed to. 6. Make sure you have no restrictions in the fuel vent line. This could affect your power as well. Power up, engine is getting starved of fuel. 7. If you haven't cleaned your spark arrestor, do it. I've snuck mine into the dishwasher before (WARNING: caused headache from wife's hand hitting side of head at high speed!). |
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| Author: | mkivbren [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:37 am ] |
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^ These guys were very helpful to me when I bought my boat and decided to inspect the cooling / exhaust systems. Here is my thread where I pulled apart the manifold and risers. There was some evidence of water getting past the mating surface. This was 298 hours, and I assume 6 seasons on the water (saltwater). http://www.ifourwinns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716 Find the tech that changed your oil and ask him if it was at all milky. That is evidence that you are getting water in the motor. |
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| Author: | Technologic80 [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I agree that something isnt right. Are you educated on proper trim procedures? Always keep the trim all the way down (bow down) when getting on plane. As soon as you pop on plane, trim up. I dont think the 5.0 EFI is "that" underpowered for the boat, albeit it wouldnt be my first choice! That engine shouldnt give you any problems getting on plane but it will work a little harder than the 5.7L, but not enough to keep you from planing quickly. Check the basics. Fuel/air/spark. Get a compression test to verify all cylinders are healthy and make sure all are firing (check each spark plugs condition). A dirty bottom will certainly drag the boat down also. |
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| Author: | zeke [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks for the responses, I knew I came to the right place. I will start to work on some of the suggestions that you have offered (I just installed all new plugs this am, but haven't been out on the water yet - too windy and rough today). The wires and distributer look good. I will check with my mechanic to find out the status of the old oil that he changed a couple weeks ago - also, he did install a new fuel filter at that time, so I assume it's OK. My trimming technique should be good - lots of reading, taken a boating course, talked to a bunch of 'ole salts' and have put over 170 hrs on this boat. I'm sure that 's not the problem. MK - I actually remember reading your post about "evidence of a water leak". I know I'm in good hands here. jvalich - I'm working through some of your suggestions - thanks. P.S. no wife induced headaches yet.....but I did do a quick clean up of the spark arrestor, but will do a thorough job when able. Graham - you're right, I can't assume that the props are the correct size. However, I'm not sure how to find out what size I actually have. Is it inscribed on the prop itself somewhere? Anyway, I'll keep working on it, and I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks |
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| Author: | 230 Mike [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
DuoProps have the designation marked on each prop, right next to the part number. If stainless, it'll be F-something. Graham, what is your boat? I've got the original (and spec'd) F5's, but have thought about trying F6's. The 230 seems to be borderline between which ones it needs. |
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| Author: | Graham R [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mike, My boat is a 2004 245 Sundownwer, with the 5.7 GXi DP; with the F5s it'd just about reach 49 mph (GPS) on a good day last year; no good days for WOT this year so far!. Previous boat was a 225 Sundowner, with the 5.7GSi DP- it also had the wrong props according to the FW website, having F6s instead of F7s. The 225 was bought seconhand, felt a lot faster than the 245 ( I suppose it was essentially "under propped") but nowhere near as capable in rough water; it would do about 53-54 mph (GPS) so I didn't see the need to spend £1200 on a set of F7s for a few more mph. It's very rare the sea state is good enough for WOT around here ( 25 mph winds and torrential rain forecast for the weekend again!) The 245 is about 180 kg heavier than the 230, so it's quite possible that your boat would run F6s. If you can borrow some it's worth a try I think! Regards, Graham |
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| Author: | 230 Mike [ Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Graham! |
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| Author: | jnizi [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
We seem to have the same issue when our guests all sit on the rear bench. We have a 2007 258 w/ 5.7 GXi. Tabs usually help but I would like it to plane quicker if I can. I was considering changing from the F4 we currently have to an F3. Do you think that would help? Also, has anyone used the new composite DP prop? |
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