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winterizing sundowner 195
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Author:  sled guy [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  winterizing sundowner 195
Hello,
been lurking since spring, decided to jump on board, I am 59 years old, live in the Finger Lakes area of New York State, been boating about 15 years.
bought a 1998 FW Sundowner 195 4.3 Cobra SX last fall that is pretty near mint from a dealer in upstate NY, the boat was winterized last fall by the dealer but this year I'll be putting her to bed myself.
I have worked in the past as an Auto Mechanic so I am competent as a mechanic, and had a 2001 FW Horizon 180 a few years ago which I winterized myself, but I don't know much about boats, nor want to make any mistakes.
My question is;
outside of stabilizing the fuel, and fogging the engine, what exactly is needed, and how do you make sure the engine is not going to freeze up?
On the Horizon I drained the block plugs and exhaust manifolds, removed all the hoses to the engine and drained, then poured antifreeze from the top side into the engine making sure it mixed in with whatever water was in there,had the boat 7 years and never had a problem. that boat had a water pump on the crank pulley, I always made sure the antifreeze was at the pump, this engine I don't see the raw water pump so it may be different to winterize. would it be better to use muffs and suck antifreeze through the drive into the engine until it comes out the water exit on the prop?
Hardly used the boat this year, bought a house and been busy with that, but next year will be a different story!
this looks like a great site, should be washing the boat and I'll take some pics this weekend.
thanks
Bob
Author:  NiagaraChillin [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
Welcome! Always glad to see another Sundowner owner join up, especially one close by. Sounds like you have a fairly good handle on winterizing based on what you did to your previous boat. Do the same with this boat. As far as the raw water pump, ain't exactly sure where they put it on the 4.3, but it "should" still be somewhere on the front of the engine. There are dozens of winterizing posts here, with lots of great tips. Some things I do outside of what you mentioned:

- Remove drive to inspect bellows/u-joints/driveshaft/seals, then store in garage on cradle.
- Ensure all water is gone from anchor locker/built in ice chest/bilge, to include drain lines
- Remove hull plug
- Remove portajohn
- Remove battery and store in garage on a charger
- Open all compartments, under seat storage areas, remove cuddy cushions. Place damprid containers thru out
- Sit and look at covered boat dreaming of spring
Author:  rpengr [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
Welcome to the forum, Sled Guy. :D

If the drive is OMC Cobra, then the waterpump is on the back of the outdrive. Just take off the curved plastic cover at the top/back of the drive (3 bolts) and the raw water pump will be right there. Easiest to service of all the drive types.
Author:  NiagaraChillin [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
rpengr wrote:
If the drive is OMC Cobra, then the waterpump is on the back of the outdrive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the OMC/Volvo "conversion" complete by 1998? I know my 1996 is all Volvo, But I suspect it was a end of year production, becasue I have seen other 96's with the joint OMC/VP engine drive.
Author:  rpengr [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
Yes, 1998 sounds to late to be OMC Cobra, but he did say 4.3 Cobra, and cannot find the waterpump on the front of the engine... Maybe 1998 is a typo?
Author:  NiagaraChillin [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
rpengr wrote:
but he did say 4.3 Cobra

Ah, good catch...more info needed sled guy, plus those pics will def help.
Author:  sled guy [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
not sure what design it is, the drive is grey like my 2001 was, the boat is a 1998, the outdrive says "Cobra SX".
I'm away from the boat now, will try to grab a pic of the drive later.

Bob
Author:  TFD2001 [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
sled guy wrote:
not sure what design it is, the drive is grey like my 2001 was, the boat is a 1998, the outdrive says "Cobra SX".
I'm away from the boat now, will try to grab a pic of the drive later.

Bob


Sounds like what my 97 Larson had.. Cobra SX was it's drive too. On that setup, the raw water pump was on the engine, on the lower left side (facing the engines), pully/belt driven..
Author:  sled guy [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
will need to learn how to post pics, I must be dyslexic, the drive says " Volvo Penta-SX Cobra", not Cobra SX.
Author:  rpengr [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
TFD2001 wrote:
sled guy wrote:
not sure what design it is, the drive is grey like my 2001 was, the boat is a 1998, the outdrive says "Cobra SX".
I'm away from the boat now, will try to grab a pic of the drive later.

Bob


Sounds like what my 97 Larson had.. Cobra SX was it's drive too. On that setup, the raw water pump was on the engine, on the lower left side (facing the engines), pully/belt driven..


Using this picture borrowed from Deafwish:

Image

Look at the thermostat housing. The two blue hoses go to his Exhaust Manifolds. Of the two Black hoses, the smaller one will lead you right to the raw water pump.
Author:  NiagaraChillin [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
sled guy wrote:
I must be dyslexic, the drive says " Volvo Penta-SX Cobra", not Cobra SX.

Aha! The picture gets clearer...don't worry sled guy, we'll get ya thru this...matter of fact, drag that boat over to my place, we'll get ya set up with Labatts and some steak....and get to the bottom of the where is the raw water pump mystery. :lol:
Author:  LouC [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
It is probably very similar to your other boat , as noted above the raw water pump (impeller) is either on the lower left side of the engine as you face it or in the crankshaft pulley. DO NOT use the suck antifreeze up the drive method on raw water cooled engines, the reason why is if you don't run it long enough to make the thermostat open you will have AF in the manifolds, but mostly water in the block and heads. You can drain the block first and suck it up but there is no point to doing it that way, it's safer to manually drain (poke a thin screwdriver in the block n mani drains to dislodge rust). Then disconnect the big hose on the front water circ pump at the bottom end to drain, and on yours you should disconnect the hoses to the impeller (mark them first) and get the water out of those hoses and pump housing. Filling with AF is optional, air doesn't freeze. I do add it by backfilling manually because it reduces corrosion.

The way I do it is first put some gasket sealer on the drain plugs and re-install. This prevents leaks and corrosion (OMC gasket sealer never hardens and works great). Then I re-connect the front cir pump hose on the bottom end and disconnect it at the thermo housing. I then fill the hose with enough AF so that it starts to come out the thermo housing, then reconnect the hose and the engine is full of -100 AF with corrosion inhibitors. Then I fill each manifold through the feed hoses disconnected from the thermo housing, till the AF runs out the exhaust (this is why you use non tox AF, not car AF). Lastly I fill the raw water intake hose till AF comes out the drive water intakes. This also pushes water out of the low end of that hose on the back of the engine, through the PS cooler. You don't want water in that cooler, because it will split and they are expensive. There is a drain plug but its hell to reach. I used to take it out but I found that if I took that hose off at the thermo housing and pointed it down lower than the bottom end of the cooler it would drain the cooler without having to jam my fingers in behind the cooler and next to the steering ram to remove that miserably placed drain plug.

This way of doing it is safe, no danger of trapped water, no problem with the impeller not sucking up AF, etc.
Don't forget to do all the other maintenance too.
One last thing, some models of the Volvo SX drives have a slot that is where the drive and pivot housing meet, on the right side as you face it. This slot is to drain trapped water in that area. If it gets clogged with crud you can get freeze damage there (cracks). My OMC Cobra has 3 plugs that must be removed from the pivot housing for the same reason.

In addition to the regular maintenance (fluid changes for drive and engine) I also pull the drive off to check the bellows, gimble bearing and u joints each season. I grease everything and re-install the drive in the spring. Note that both OMC and Volvo indicated in there manuals that the drive must be removed to grease the driveshaft splines. This is true even if you have a non-greaseable gimble bearing and u joints. If the drive is not removed for a long time, the driveshaft splines can rust into the coupler and it will give you hell to get it off. Merc has the grease fitting that allows you to grease it with the drive on but you still should be checking the bellows for water, the input shaft seal on the upper gear housing for oil leaks and the smoothness of both the gimble and the u joints. If either of these fails while at speed it can be catastrophic, as in a destroyed transom mount and yes the boat could take on water.

I've been doing it this way for years and it takes about 3 hrs to get the whole thing done right.
Author:  AlexJ [ Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
LouC, do you have to replace any gaskets each time you pull the drive ?
Author:  LouC [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
Yes because the OMC Cobra (86-93 original style) uses a gasket between the drive and pivot housing. The Volvo SX does not so don't worry about that if you are doing yours.
As I mentioned above, one tip for wintering for you Volvo guys that is important if you don't remove the drive is that there is a slot where the drive meets the pivot housing on the starboard side, big enough to slid a small screwdriver in. This is a water drain and if it gets clogged with crud it can trap water which may freeze and crack the aluminum housing. So if you don't remove it at least clean this slot out with a small screwdriver to let the water out. The Cobra has 3 drain plugs on the pivot housing to drain water. In some years Volvo SXs had one as well.

Another point that some miss is the power steering cooler on the rear of the engine. These have drain plugs but in some installations they are hell to get at. What I do is disconnect that raw water intake hose and point it down in the bilge to drain any water. Then I stick a funnel in it and pour -100 no tox AF in it till it runs out the drive water intake holes. That pushes any left over water out. Again this is especially important if you don't remove the drive. Depending on the angle that the boat sits on the trailer water can get trapped in that hose. You don't want a cracked cooler because they are expensive.
Author:  Technologic80 [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: winterizing sundowner 195
LouC hit the nail on the head on both of his posts.

Last year I had a friend help me winterize my twin 4.3 engines. He used the winterizing kit hooked up with muffs to the outdrives. We let the motors warm up for 15 minutes or so, then switched over to antifreeze.

After he left, a neighbor came over. He is very anti-winterizing kit. We disconnected the manifold hoses and sure enough - pure (or close to it) purple anti-freeze. Took out a block drain and sure enough - pure (or mostly) water :shock:

I then did everything the water LouC said. Had I not, I wouldve been out two 4.3l engines this past spring!
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