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Bleeding air out of power trim system
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12775		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Technologic80 [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Bleeding air out of power trim system
Ugh, Im having the hardest time this year getting the air out of my port side trim system for the outdrive, after rebuilding the ram!!

The Volvo Penta manual says something like... run the trim up to the max and down to the lowest it will go 5 times, then check the level... well, what are you supposed to do when there is so much air in the system that it wont go up all the way? Oh brother. :roll:

So who here has had their power trim system apart/rebuilt their lift rams before, and can help me with some advice to get the air out of it?

Also, I have twin engines and they use the same power trim pump. To check the fluid level, you are supposed to have the outdrive up all the way. Are we talking both outdrives up all the way, or just the one Im trying to get working?! The manual isnt specific and I imagine they mean both outdrives trimmed up. :?: :?:

Either way, last year it wasnt this hard.
Author:  rpengr [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Air in the cylinders will not keep them from moving, but they would react slowly until the air compresses enough to move the drive. The drive would also be "springy". If your pump is pumping, then the drive WILL move all the way. As the Volvo instructions imply, moving all the way to the stops in both directions will force the air back to the reservoir by replacing it with oil.

If your drive will not move all the way (even with air in the ram cylinders), then there is something wrong with the pump or valves (or low oil level in reservoir).

The only alternative I can think of where the cylinder could be at fault... is if the seals on the piston are missing, and therefore the oil is going right past the piston.
Author:  Technologic80 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Ok dumb question of the day- no judging me please :mrgreen:

Would my twin engined 1997 Four Winns Vista 278 have two separate trim pumps? :shock:
Author:  rpengr [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Technologic80 wrote:
Ok dumb question of the day- no judging me please :mrgreen:

Would my twin engined 1997 Four Winns Vista 278 have two separate trim pumps? :shock:

I am fairly certain the answer is YES, but I have never had a twin engine boat.
Author:  Technologic80 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Anybody else with a twin engined FW care to chime in? Are there two power trim pumps in the bilge and where?

I only know of the 1 pump located right in the center of the transom, between the engines. Just always assumed because it was "central" it was the pump for both drives. :shock:
Author:  TFD2001 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Technologic80 wrote:
Anybody else with a twin engined FW care to chime in? Are there two power trim pumps in the bilge?


There is in mine.. It may be that the one pump you're looking at is your trim tabs pump? That, I believe, is a single pump for both tabs?..
Author:  Technologic80 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
TFD2001 wrote:
Technologic80 wrote:
Anybody else with a twin engined FW care to chime in? Are there two power trim pumps in the bilge?


There is in mine.. It may be that the one pump you're looking at is your trim tabs pump? That, I believe, is a single pump for both tabs?..


No, the trim tab motor on my boat is mounted on the forward bilge bulkhead. Its also clearly labeled....lol.

Alrighty then, now I feel like a total butthole. Ive been trying to bleed the air out of my port side drive, by topping off my stbd trim pump, thinking they were the same. :lol: :lol:

Image


Somebody on iboats also suggested that I have to have two pumps. I guess.... lesson learned! Tonight I will eat crow and go searching for my port side trim pump (with little luck FW put it in a total unreachable spot - or a spot where its going to make my arms look like they were run through a wood chipper) :shock: In 3 years of ownership, and 3 years of owning a 258 Vista before that, I am (or thought I was) very well versed with my bilge area. :oops:
Author:  TFD2001 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
I'm not 100% positive, but I think on my setup, the port engine pump is on the port side of that engine, relatively easy to get to, but the starbard engine pump is mounted between the engines (or the port side of the starbard engine), in the back, and not as easy to get to.. Can't say for certain though..
Author:  Technologic80 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
TFD2001 wrote:
I'm not 100% positive, but I think on my setup, the port engine pump is on the port side of that engine, relatively easy to get to, but the starbard engine pump is mounted between the engines (or the port side of the starbard engine), in the back, and not as easy to get to.. Can't say for certain though..


Thanks TFD.

Im just embarrassed that I have been in that bilge almost every weekend cleaning, maintaining, sometimes admiring the engines and genset, topping off fluids and/or just checking the quality, and Ive NEVER seen TWO trim pumps!! I dont want to accept the fact that I was wrong :mrgreen:

But what you say sounds like it could be the same for my boat.... there is a pump located between two engines. A dumb dumb like myself, would think "The designers put it in the middle of the two outdrives because its the pump for BOTH". Duh. Feel so stupid right now.

On the bright side, my starboard side trim reservoir is DEFINITELY topped off!! :lol: :lol: :shock:
Author:  acguy [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Yes there is definatley 2 pumps. Mine is located in the middle for the starboard drive. You had me thinking all day about this one!!!!
Author:  weather [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Yep, as everyone has already mentioned - it would seem that each engine/trim pump are exact copies. So that puts one in between the engines! I know I have two because they sound different as well.

Come to think of it, I have no idea where my trim tab pump is - guess I'll have to look for that the next time I'm out at the boat! :roll:
Author:  Technologic80 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Well guys, I came home and went right to the boat and located the hiding trim pump!

First off, heres a picture of where the pump is located between my two engines. I originally assumed this was the "main" pump (Knowing nothing about hydraulics, except how to rebuild the ram based on the VP/OMC shop manual):
Image

THIS is why I had never seen the port side trim pump - its located (read: crammed) behind the port side riser:
Image

This is what I used to fill it up (and it took almost a whole quart!!):
Image

After I filled it up, it started working. I bled out more air, topped off, bled out more air. Its now working great!

Thanks for all of the help. Learn something new every day... :mrgreen:
Author:  rpengr [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bleeding air out of power trim system
Technologic80 wrote:
After I filled it up, it started working. I bled out more air, topped off, bled out more air. Its now working great!

Thanks for all of the help. Learn something new every day... :mrgreen:

Glad to hear it worked out. That pump was hidden pretty well. :D
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