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Hello all,
Im new and I need help on a project. I traded my jetskis for a Fout Winns 170. It has a 2.3L Cobra OMC. The motor has lost compression in 2 cylinders. Im going to pull the head off tomorrow. The engine is completely locked.

My question is: Is it worth buying a new Ford shortblock and dropping a good head on it?

If not, how easy is it to convert to a Mercruiser or GM or Volvo engine? Would this include all the wiring and controls? I saw kits to convert the outdrives for a motor swap.

Basically I am trying to decide whether to stay with the original equipment or go for another motor set up.
Thanks
EdMel

If the motor is locked up, how were you able to determine that two cyl's had lost compression? With either problem, locked up or lost compression, a new head won't fix it; even if valves are the reason, chances are if valves broke of they damage pistons as well.
I would take the head off and see if you can clean out the cyl's, put some marvel mystery oil in them, let them soak and eventually try turning the engine over with a breaker bar. Gently. I bet you've got broken piston rings, at least.
You can swap over but, nothing wrong with the OMC set up as long as it is maintained.

_________________
1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

You have some options, I'd see if you can get this one running first, the issue with the Ford engine in the OMC application is that it was not used for a really long time and certain parts are hard to find. If you're going to swap, you could keep the Cobra system and get a GM 3.0 4 cyl, you'd have to change the front engine mounts and check to see if the transom plate and exhaust pipe are the same and would work. If the Cobra drive and transom mount are good, I might be tempted to use them, unless you can get a good deal on a Merc system (engine, transom mount and drive) and do it all at once. I have heard that you can't get exhaust manifolds for those 2.3 Fords anymore, don't know if you need one but that's an issue if you do.
There is the SEI conversion where you can put an adaptor bell housing and use an SEI copy of the Alpha drive, if the Cobra drive is no good. At this point since its not running you don't know what you have really.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

First, thanks to the both of you for responding with your help.

I will try the Marvel Mystery oil today and soak the cylinders over night. I know I tried WD40 and it didnt work. The previous owner told me it had lost compression in 2 cylinders and he thought it was his head gasket. He got a rebuilt engine that had been left in the cold and popped a freeze plug. He put a temp plug in and tested the motor but he saw water mixing with the oil. So he was going to use the head off the rebuilt unit for the unit with low compression if the rings were Good.

Would the GM 3.0 bolt straight onto the OMC outdrive? Will i have to change out the wiring and controls? I have done conversions on cars but never a boat. I found a complete Mercruiser 4.3 with outdrive for 1500. I was told it was a running unit but I could never be sure. Would the 4.3 work or am I looking into problems with mount placement and size of the engine?

Again, thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply. I will let you know how the marvel oil did tomorrow.

Lou will have more info for ya on most of your questions. The only thing I know is that, if you are staying with OMC, you shouldn't have to change any of the wire harness or controls.

Some might think that 4.3 is too big for a 17' (maybe for weight) and I'm not sure since I'm more of an outboard dude. The only thing I would be concerned with is the HP rating for the hull and insurance on the boat. However, if you get a green light for it from Lou and some others that know their stern drives, I would be tempted to get that entire set up. $1500 isn't bad if it is in reasonable working condition. If you go look at it to buy it, do a compression check on the engine and maybe do a leak down test too. Of course check the oil on it and the outdrive gear oil. Check prop shaft for any wobble etc... Just check it out as much as you can and see if the dude who has it can give you something in writing like a warranty or something. Just something saying yes, this works and if not, bring it back for a 100% refund. Get it in writing and both you sign it in front of a notary.

I would rather swap something out for a known good working engine than fiddle with and drop money on a big fat question mark.

_________________
1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

In reference to dropping in a 4.3 for sure I can see why you'd want to, but here's what I'd do.
Go on the FW website and look in the previous models specs . See if they offered it with that engine . If they did, fine, we know then that the hull can take the weight (4.3 a good bit heavier than the 2.3 4cyl) . The 4.3 is much wider than the 4 but shorter. The drive ratio for the 4cyl will be abit too low for the 4.3, not sure if you can correct that with propping.
If they did not offer it with that engine then there's a good reason.
Also you will need a different Y pipe, the 4.3 exhaust etc.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Again, thanks to all of you for your advice and help. I went and looked at the 4.3 enigine. It had very little compression in 1 cylinder. I decided not to get it.

I took the head off the engine on the boat. I didnt see where the head gasket had failed. It looked pretty solid. I took pics but I cannot figure out how to post them. The head looked good. I took a straight edge and a gap guage and it was even throughout the head. Cylinders 2 and 3 have water in them and were pretty rusted. Needless to say I could not break the crank lose even with a breaker bar. The cylinders had been soaking all night in Marvel oil.

I am going to pull the engine out tomorrow and break it down. I will let you know what I find. I have found alot.of blocks for the 2.3l engine in my area. I may may just get one and rebuild it myself.

I will try to figure out how to post pics so you can see what I am seeing.

Thanks again,
EdMel

If you had water in 2 cylinders, it could have come from the head gasket but you didn't see a problem there. It also could have come from the exhaust manifold. There is a way to check manifolds for cracks by filling them with acetone which has less surface tension than water and it shows cracks more readily. I would check this first, because if its bad and you can't get another manifold (they might be NLA) then there's no point to rebuilding that engine. So take off the manifold, fill it with acetone (be careful, wear chemical resistant gloves and goggles) and see if you see it leaking down by the exhaust ports. If not it could have been a failed gasket between the riser and manifold, or just the riser itself. Verify if you can the source of the water, and find out if new exhaust parts are available if needed before doing any work......

I checked their literature and the 170 Freedom model was available with both the 3.0 GM 4 cyl and the 2.3 Ford but not the 4.3 V-6. Not saying that it could not be done, but the extra weight of the 4.3 could make the boat too stern heavy and these boats don't have that much freeboard to start with. So you would be best off converting it over to a GM 3.0 4 cyl which is a very common marine engine. Not sure again if the exhaust pipe for the 2.3 and the 3.0 are the same, you can go onto Crowley Marine's website and look up in the OMC parts catalogs to see if the parts have the same part number (also check the rear engine mount/transom inner plate). The could be different do not assume anything.....and of course you'd have to fab up new front engine mounts.

Well my curiosity got the better of me and I went and checked:
The transom plate and the flywheel housing is the same for both engines, the exhaust pipe is not, not sure if the 2.3 pipe could work with the 3.0 exhaust. However, judging by the number of parts that are NLA even for the 3.0, I have to say, I'd probably remove all the OMC stuff, and find a donor Merc boat, and transplant the whole thing. Why make your life difficult chasing parts, once you have the engine out, the rest of the conversion is not that hard. It will cost more initially than just changing the engine, but ultimately its better to have a power package you can get parts for....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I will check the exhaust manifold first thing tomorrow. The store is closed and my wifes nail acetone is not enough(llus it would piss her off). I will stay with the 2.3l. It seems its the best option right now. I will start hunting for a 3.0 little by little.

I did see a new manifold and riser on ebay. I also saw alot of used ones. But I will check out the one I have carefully first.

Thanks.

PS= still trying to get the pics posted for you all to view urselves.

EdMel

Now I am curious. What parts are hard to find for the 2.3l?

I have found alternators, starters, distributers, pistons and rings, heads.

Exhaust manifold n riser
Look in the OMC catalog on the Crowley Marine website, a lot of parts are NLA but some of those can be found in the aftermarket (Sierra, GLM) or used...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

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[img][IMG]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f139/emelendez12000/Mobile%20Uploads/20140901_200038_zps1ebe3094.jpg[/img] [/img]
[img][IMG]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f139/emelendez12000/Mobile%20Uploads/20140901_200053_zps2cdb1f3d.jpg[/img] [/img]
Here are the pics of the riser and exhaust manifold. I saw that the boat didnt have itz riser or manifold. The pics are from the second motor. I also saw that the second head looks to have roller rockers.

No leaks on the riser or manifold before I pulled them apart.

Sorry I have been away a couple of days.

I am pulling apart the block in the boat. I am going to order the repair manual. Any suggestions on this? Is there 1 manual better than another?

Im hoping you saw the pics to the riser and manifold. I thought they were pretty clean.

Take care.
EdMel

The cooling passages look great. But I did see rust in the exhaust ports. If those ports match up with the cylinders that had water in them then you need to figure out if the riser or manifold was cracked or if it was a defective gasket.

On my boat when I changed the manifolds the ports just had a bit of carbon in them no rust.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks. Could a cracked block cause the water issues in the exhaust ports?
Should I pour the acetone in the water ports? I did pull the block from the boat and its toast. It has rusted so badly inside that the water pump was caked in rust. I found a short block for $100. Are the automotive rods and pistons the same as marine rods and pistons? If not, then I will order a rebuild kit.

I did get the head gasket and manifold and riser gaskets ordered.