www.iFourWinns.com

Hi Guys,

This weekend my 2004 Merc 4.3 MPI died on me, and as my trusted mechanic is not available for another 3 weeks I am going to try to trouble shoot it my self.

Does anyone have a link for me to down load the manual for the 4.3 MPI from 2001 onwards? The one I have is for the '99 EFI, not the MPI.

The boat ran ok for the morning then started to bog down on full throttle take off when pulling out a skier. Hit the throttle, and it would stall - sometimes recover and accelerate, sometimes it would die requiring a restart. It also backfired once or twice during the day.

Then I noted the engine alarm beep at me. Two beeps about a second apart. This happened twice about 10 minutes apart and did not occur again.

We stopped to pick up a skier and the motor had no power off idle, and ran very rough. Open the throttle and it would back fire, miss fire, and run very rough. Finally after a few more attempts it backfired a few times in a row and died. Yesterday it would turn over easily and sound like it wanted to run, and just got to the point where it was about to catch and then die. ( today it wont turn over but I have the battery out on charge now, as it does turn over using wrench).

Appreciate any experience you might have, and any links to the manual download!

All oils and drive lube levels are good, fuel tank is about half and is the same fuel as last weekend as I have not yet filled up. I can hear the fuel pump on ignition priming the system and while it sounds the same it whines a fair bit but not enough to notice once the motor is running. Temp was fine.

It feels like it is not getting fuel, but would this cause backfiring? If the ignition is faulty that would explain it but until I get it to turn over I cant check for spark. Also is there a trick to pulling the codes from this motor with out the fancy code readers?

This motor has always felt weak and gutless, so perhaps if either the fuel pump was failing or the ignition system was weak then it might come right after repairing the issue? - looking for the silver lining, and trying not to look for the matches.....

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

Didn't say this in the other thread, but have you dumped out the fuel filter and see if you have any crap or water in the gas?
Another sneaky problem is the anti-siphon valve on the tank, it is a spring loaded ball valve that keeps gas from siphoning into the bilge, if the fuel line between the tank and the fuel filter/pump ruptures. All inboards usually have them. This was a problem on my boat, it was about 14 years old at the time, and the boat would start, run, could rev up in neutral, but would fall on its face if you tried to plane out the boat. I did all my old time mechanic checking and took it to the best OMC mechanics around. They re-built the Quadrajet 4 bbl carb and replaced the anti siphon valve and it was fine. If these valves fail the engine starves for fuel, like a bad fuel pump. They are cheap I'd change it first, a '99 is going on 16 years old soon....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Well - anytime anything goes wrong on that engine, always think Idle Air control valve. In my 4 years of that engine . . I had to replace the IAC nearly every year and each time the symptoms were slightly different. Its a super easy replacement - if you dare you can go to the clubsearay site . . lots of Merc IAC threads there . . .

Hope this is the issue

_________________

2010 Vista 338 Volvo Penta
2005 Yamaha Wave Runner FX HO

2005 SeaRay 280 SunDancer
2001 SeaRay 245 Weekender

Agreed with all above, but I would do the basics first....
Change all your typical fluids/filters (fuel filter!), then go after your plugs, wires, cap and rotor. That should eliminate most of the common problems, and are probably due anyway. after that, start going after the anti-syphon and IAC valve. There should also be a small foam filter in the IAC.... check/replace that even if the IAC checks out. Run high octane gas for a tank to help check for pre-ignition... seems like I get that occasionally on the cheap stuff ever since they changed to Ethanol.

Another resource to have, besides the manual, is a code reader. Rinda has a good one I use and is only about $400... I keep mine in the boat to trouble shoot issues as they arise.

Best of luck and post your results so we may help you , and your experience may help others.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

Took battery off charge, connected it, and it fired right up....

I did not have water on it so I shut it down after a few seconds, but at least it is seems not to be suffering catastrophic failure.

Next step is to check anti siphon Valve, as this seems very likely and easy ( and cheap) to check/repair. Fuel filter check / replacement as well, but I have not filled up since the last time I was out and it ran ok then. Considering the incredibly low fuel consumption and general lack of power I am suspecting the Anti Siphon Valve / Fuel pump as an issue.

The IAC was checked and I installed a new filter on the IAC inlet last week as the original was missing and it was making a rather loud suction noise. Noise now gone and filter still in place.

In a previous post I have been trying to work out if this motor is lacking power and performing poorly, or if it is just a small motor in a big boat and there is nothing more to be done.At present I would classify it as monumentally gutless with all tests showing it is slower than my previous 130hp 4 cyl in a Sea-Ray 180. This search meant that I have already replaced Plugs, checked plug leads which are one season old. Checked fuel, fuel filter, oil, oil filter, drive lube and flame arrestor. I have also had my mechanic plug in his computer to look for issues and the printout looks to manufacturers spec.

Next step after anti siphon valve is fuel pressure test / Fuel pump/regulator tests. Seeing as the boat just started I may not need to check the ignition system but the following is on the list: ignition testing, distributor check, Ignition control module, coil test.

Still looking for the manual for the 4.3L MPI - a free download would be nice but I will pay for it if a free one does not exist.

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

See a prior post listed below....I have no idea if the link works since I post from a tablet. In short there is a screen on the fuel pressure regulator that will clog with ethanol use (treated fuel or not).....mine was clogged and fuel pumped trashed. The pump didn't whine so much after it shut down on me....backfired, ran for short bursts etc. Its easy and takes 5 minutes to swap the filter for the
eclip....the pump was a bit longer and way more expensive.

Prior post


I was researching to find answer to a fuel pressure issue an ran across a service bulletin from Volvo Penta in 2011. It says to remove the screen from the fuel regulator and replace with an Eclip part number 21491831. May be old news but was new to me!

This pertains to those with EFI prior to 2011

Hope this crazy link works

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 8958,d.b2U

_________________
http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o71 ... wqm355.jpg


08' H210SS
VP 5.7Gi

If the link doesn't work just Google the following phrase

volvo penta fuel regulator bulletin

_________________
http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o71 ... wqm355.jpg


08' H210SS
VP 5.7Gi

Ok so first step was to check anti siphon valve.... It snapped off at the t-Piece on top of the tube from the fuel tank....

Took 2 days to remove pick up tube from tank as it was seized so tight it started to stretch the plastic of the tank when appropriate force was applied ( 2 foot breaker bar). soaked in anti seize concoction I use and finally came off tonight. Now to find a replacement.......

I can't tell if it was the valve as it is now in pieces but the ball and the inside of it was shiny and clean.....

Because this POS has the Merc ECM555 ECU there is no way to check the fault codes until I get it into a mechanic, and they are all booked out for weeks as it is "That time of Year".

Will be pulling the fuel system apart this weekend, have ordered a new pump ( hope to arrive tomorrow), and have the new fuel hoses already. New filter going on and planing to take fuel rail and injectors to have them professionally cleaned tomorrow.

If that does not work then next weekend its the ignition system, distributor cap rotor and control unit, coil, all wiring to and from, new plugs and plug wires.

Should hopefully be reliable enough to take the family out again....

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

Minor Success..

Could not find an elbow to fit the fuel tank pick up so had a local engineering company make one out of Stainless steel. All one piece, so no worries with threads etc. Installed this afternoon and fits perfect.

Fuel pump did not arrive.... that's because Mercury over here no longer sells just the pump, you have to buy the entire fuel cooling system including the pump.... AU$450 excluding GST and freight. But nobody thought to let me know that until I arrived to collect it..... That is too much to simply swap out parts, I need to be sure it is the pump before parting with that much hard earned...

Took Injectors and fuel rail to be cleaned, they tested perfect and flow rate on each one is as per manufacturers specification, so no need to waste money with full clean.

So tested fuel pressure, 39-40PSI at ignition on, 41 at Idle. Running on hose so cant test WOT.... Fuel pump howls like banshee though and you can hear it whine up and down its range, and every now and then it burbles a bit and then returns to howling..... You can hear it clearly above the engine if the motor cover is off, even at 2000rpm the pump is still clearly louder than the motor. I think I am in for a new pump...... More testing tomorrow.

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

Sounds like you are well on the way to gettin it done...
Good luck and report back on your results as it will surely help others.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Took the boat out this weekend for another spin and took the tools with...

Warning horn beeps intermittently but not consistently.....so there is something not right. I also noted the fuel pressure now sits at 34psi at Idle and drops to 32psi at about 2500 rpm. Due to the design of the fuel pressure gauge I could not measure at WOT as this would mean the rear hatch would need to be open... and at 40mph that would end in tears.

So the double edge sword... if it is the fuel pump / regulator the cost will be AU$450 pus labour to repair. (AU$750 approx) BUT this may also solve the poor performance issue I am having. At 32psi that would be a fair loss in the amount of fuel injected compared to 43 psi...

The Merc 555 ECU means I cannot see the codes with out a special code reader... so I might still not be replacing the right part, and wont know what set off the alarm until it gets to the mechanic.....

So the Dilemma, do I go ahead and replace just the pump, or the whole cooler pump and regulator system? Or do I wait for the mechanic to diagnose in a week or two and pay him to do what ever is needed... mmm?

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

Good luck with it.....
I think your life would be easier if you had one of these.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0ux2f539yw1y ... d.jpg?dl=0

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

no, how about one of these....
http://www.rinda.com/marine/mtspec.htm

Just make sure you get the proper adapter for the 555.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

This and a hundred dollar mechanical fuel pump and you're done...I rest my case lol.....

http://flyingfishcarburetors.com/Y40-2AOMC.htm

Just kidding I have the next to top of the line Actron scanner for my vehicles, it was very useful troubleshooting an O2 code on my 07 Jeep, and I've fixed at least 6 check engine light issues with our 3 vehicles over the years with a simple basic Actron scanner. I got the better one so I could watch live data streams while driving.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0h3hhn1be0kn4 ... r.jpg?dl=0

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Mechanic has come to a similar conclusion, not sure if it is the Pump or the Regulator, probably both. Seeing as replacing either is a PITA and is going to cost the same in labour we might as well replace both.
Fuel pressure 34-36PSI on idle and ranges between 29 and 34 PSI at higher revs. Pinching the return line takes over the job of the regulator and the pump pressure varies from 50 to 60 PSI, so pump not holding good pressure (should be good for 80-90PSI) and regulator not holding 43PSI.

Access is a swine which is why I did not do the job. He has to hoist the motor with the crane to take the weight off the engine mount and remove the mount just to get reasonable access.

The codes thrown are all over-rev codes (a lot ), but the shift interrupt switch has thrown some codes as well. Not sure if this switch is used as part of the rev limiter system but will be checking it out and possibly replacing it as well.

All going well I should have it back for the weekend ... with a much lighter wallet

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)