www.iFourWinns.com

My 2008, V288 is stored in a climate controlled cave during winter. The first winter I owned it, it was stored in a non-heated or insulated building.

I enjoy working on my boat, to me it's an escape from my day-to-day responsibilities at work and at home. I also have the assurance that quality parts and consumables are used.

I have a question on motor winterization. As a precaution and for corrosion protection, I do winterize my engines.

I use an engine flusher and warm the engine up using a garden hose, once the thermostat opens I switch to a gravity feed tank and circulate 10-20 gallons of AF through each motor until only AF is discharged through the exhaust. Is this an acceptable way of displacing the water and filling with AF? I would prefer not to drain the motor to prevent damage to hoses and clamps.

Thank you.

I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but I have to say it....
1) does the engine have closed cooling (heat exchanger) or open cooling (no exchanger). If its closed cooled, you can do it this way but its very wasteful, my way of doing it only uses 5 gallons of AF.
2) if not closed cooled (as many of you fresh water guys are), I would NOT recommend this method. If the thermostat does not open up, then you will still have water in the block and there is a risk of cracking the block and heads. Some drain the engine first, some remove the 'stat, but really esp with an engine mounted water pump (raw water impeller), its safer to do this:

1) Run the engine till warm, change oil and filter
2) run engine again, check for leaks at filter, if OK fog engine and shut down
3) let engine cool off
5) remove all drain plugs and poke openings, 2 on each engine block, one on each manifold. *Note, some late model 4.3s have a drain on the front edge of the intake manifold, mine does not but the newer (vortec) models do*
6) remove bottom end of big hose that goes to the front circulating pump that drains a lot of water
7) reconnect that bottom end.
if you want to use AF to {reduce corrosion only}
disconnect the top end of that hose at the thermo housing. Start filling the engine with the best -100 AF not the cheap -50 stuff, till a bit of AF comes out the drains, that pushes the last of the water out. Put OMC gasket sealer or similar on the threads of the drain plugs and re-install. Fill the engine till you see AF come out the thermostat housing neck. Re-attach that hose and the engine is done.
9) Fill the exhaust manifolds the same way, till the AF runs out the exhaust
10) Disconnect the raw water intake hose, point it down in the bilge to drain water (tilt bow down a bit)...fill it with AF till it comes out the drive water intakes. If you have a Bravo or Volvo, make sure to disconnect that hose and the one that goes from the impeller housing to the thermo housing and drain it. Mark these hoses so you don't re-connect them wrong.

This is basically it, I'm not a fan of any of the suck the AF up the drive methods EXCEPT on closed cooled motors. Even then, you have to be careful because of this fact:

Even tho Volvo and Merc brag about how great an engine mounted impeller is, well I don't think they are so great. Why, well a drive mounted impeller like an outboard, Merc Alpha or OMC Cobra, primes much faster than an engine mounted one, when running the boat on land on the water hose. In water you have the static water pressure that takes care of this issue.
AF, has a higher specific gravity than water, so its harder to suck up. If the impeller is a bit worn it may not suck it in fast enough, and burn up and overheat the engine. Ruining your winterizing day.

If I had a closed cooled engine, I'd use a bilge pump to pressurize the flow of AF into the drive water intakes.
People use a similar method on straight inboard boats that are closed cooled.

Do not fear removing hoses, in fact its better to have done so because with a raw water cooled engine they will get RUSTED on after years of not being removed. The same is true with the metal drain plugs.


OK I'll stop now lol.....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Yeah, what Lou said....

BTW, if ya breakdown the steps and labor, it is easier and quicker to winterize the way Lou described over the suck up the AF method.

_________________

1996 205 Sundowner DLX
5.0FL Volvo SX Cobra
Tow Veh: 2012 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X

I drain all the water I can, i.e. Exhausts and block and tube to pump at the front. Then hook up a sink-drain pump to my AF so it pressurises flow to the drive. Start the engine and let it circulate. About 10-12L of AF, that's like 3-4g or so "disappears" into the engine. i let it warm up so I can feel the stat opening and all lines filling with warm fluid, then shut off.

Here is a pic of how I ensure circulation and no more than a drop or two of loss.

That works because you drained it first, but as I said above, sometimes the Volvo style impellers do not suck it in fast enough, your system is good though at avoiding that issue. If you're going to drain anyway, why not just manually pour it in? Simple, foolproof, easy....Stick a funnel in the big hose, stick a funnel in the manifold hoses, you don't even spill much. Plus my way lets you fog it, without worrying about running out of AF....

I know of a way....to determine if the 'stat opened up....but I'm not revealing it here....to stamp out the bad habits and lazy winterizing methods some have 'learned' so you don't have to learn the hard way.....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I also run it on a separate fuel tank mixed approx 4-5% 2-stroke oil and the rest ethanol free gas when I circulate that coolant (hence the smoke).

The last two years I used the gravity kit from West Marine because I was scared I'd screw it up since I wasn't 100% sure exactly where some of the hoses & drains were.

This past Friday it was supposed to get down in to freezing pretty good. I freaked out and went out to get the boat so I could drain it. I used a post from LouC to guide me through what to do, and it was pretty easy, except for needing to be a contortionist to get to the block & exhaust manifold drains. I finished up my winterization today and used that same post from LouC to get the AF in all the right places.

I think now that I've done it once I'll do it this way from now on. It really wasn't that bad and I feel like I did it the "right" way.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ.

10-20 gallons of anti-freeze @ $14.99 (-100f at West Marine) per gallon, PER engine?? Are we talking about 12 cylinder diesel engines? What a waste of anti-freeze and money.

I buy a total of 3 gallons of the -100f engine anti-freeze at West Marine and do BOTH my engines AND my generator. I strongly recommend, as do many others here, Lou's winterizing method. Thats the method I use and is recommended in my OEM VP manual. For peace of mind, I do leave the drain plugs and hoses off all winter. I flush a gallon of anti freeze through the engine/manifolds/pumps to "chase" any residual water out.

But, really though

_________________
1997 Four Winns Vista 278
T - 4.3l EFI
Kohler 4esz Genset
379 hours as of 8/8/21

Glad some of you are seeing the light, if you want to do it right, not worry all winter, then this is the way. And, I might add, I got it right from my OMC shop manual, so I can't take credit for it, but it was written by engineers, who know what works. I know marinas that winterize a LOT of boats in one day, use a suck AF up the drive method, but that's because they know exactly how to make that method work and they have a winterizing trough that re-circulates the AF to keep the stat open. But, if they get an engine with a sticky stat that does not close all they way, it is still possible to have a problem, unless you are careful and monitor the temp of the big hose that goes between the thermo housing and circulating water pump. If this hose's temp is not at least about 145* then that stat may not be open all the way. See it needs to close all the way to get the water in the engine hot enough to make it open all the way. Then when it does open, it should heat that hose to about 145 or so.

The marina folks do not want to be fooling with drain plugs and hoses, which admittedly can be a pain to remove on a cold day, but you are better off removing them once a year. That way when you really need to remove them, you will be able to.

And, I'd reinstall those drain plugs and here is why....raw cast iron rusts when exposed to air. You leave em out and the threads start to rust internally. I coat the threads with OMC gasket sealer or Permatex Aviation sealer and put em in. Never have trouble getting them out even in salt water land.

One last tip: get a freezer bag and cover the starter with it. Because, the manifold drain will often drain water right ON the starter. They are ignition protected but not water proof....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I should have mentioned, the engines are raw water cooled.

Thanks for all the great replies. My process has been pretty wasteful, and in retrospect not the smartest way to do it. The guys at West Marine probably thought I was an AF addict given the cases of AF I buy every fall. The manuals are pretty clear, but these tips that are not typically in the manuals are very useful.

Today was my last day out for the season, it was miserable, cloudy and windy and awesome to be out on the boat with my beautiful wife, my 3 month old son and three year old daughter.

Well my way will save you some cash, I use 4-5 gallons and I leave it in both the engine and manifolds. So you might use bit more (V-8 vs V-6) but no way would you need 20 gallons. More like 10-12 all together.
PS if you're going to use AF, the point is to LEAVE it IN, to keep the AIR (Oxygen) out....
Rust=Fe O2 (iron oxide) eliminate the air (O2) and you cut down on rust. You don't need AF for freeze protection, to do that you manually drain. You use AF for corrosion protection. And its really optional. I do it but many have not and not had any real problems.

The proof of the fact that this works, is as follows:
In checking my engine, manifolds etc, as far as I can see, the spots were there is some corrosion, is where I can't get the AF to completely cover. As in, the inside of the thermostat housing and the riser passages. Inside the intake manifold (visible when changing the 'stat) and the water passages in the front of the block (visible when changing the front circulating pump) I have had no flaking rust. So that's why I keep spending $14x5 gallons to do it this way, I've got a 26 year old engine used in salt water 13+ years and it's not rusted out yet.....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Hose clamps are durable but cheap if they do break. Buy a hose hook from any local auto parts store for about 10 bux. They will remove a hose in a snap without any damage. Drain it at the raw water pump hose, both block and manifold drains. Seal her back up and run your gravity feeder with about 3 gallons per engine. With the numbers you have given, you'll save up to 32 gallons of antifreeze.

_________________
07 Azure AZ200,
Previous boat,
95 278 Vista,
And a lot of others.

Ontario, Canada

stored in a climate controlled cave during winter? Don't worry about winterizing. Drain your fresh water and hot water tank, put stabil in the gas and forget about it. Get the bilge and shower sump dry. Store the drives down and go home.
Using antifreeze is just wasting time and money.
I store mine in a climate controlled cave also.