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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:28 am 
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Ray how often do you replace your manifolds/risers in Fla?
Every 5 years or so?

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
LouC wrote:
Ray how often do you replace your manifolds/risers in Fla?
Every 5 years or so?

In the past, I had tried to get at least 7-8 years out of them, but I trailer the boat, and run 5+ min in fresh water after each salt water use. The last set I pushed past 10 years on the old 4.3L because they were no longer available. I had "cleaned them out" a couple times with a wire rod, and some acid. They were still staying cool enough, but eventually it rusted through and leaked water directly into two cylinders. So 10 years was definitely too long!

Within the next 6 weeks, I will be doing a maintenance cycle on my boat. I will include pulling the risers to inspect current condition of the riser/manifolds that I put on about 4 years ago. I'll report back when I get that done.

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:35 pm 
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You know about the acetone test?
Acetone has less surface tension than water. It will find cracks that water won't find. So if you remove the manifolds and carefully fill them with acetone and let em sit, you can watch for moisture trails appearing in the exhaust ports. I did this twice with my batwings. Passed both times (2 different sets) but the rust flakes that could have fallen into the exhaust ports was the other issue.
With flushing you might get longer, but its good to check. Post up pix, I'd like to see how the mating surfaces look after you get them cleaned up.
BTW, for aftermarket exhaust parts, Barr is good quality at reasonable prices. I checked the mating surfaces after removing the paint and they were flat and level to less than .002". Everything fit perfect on the old Cobra Y pipe. I used Volvo Penta OE for the 90* exhaust pipes that adapt from the 4" risers to the 3.5" Y pipe. They were expensive, but the only way to do the conversion without using GLM parts. GLM's rep here is not good and the 2 local parts houses I get stuff from will not even order GLM stuff, because of past problems...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Lou, it's been a couple weeks. Have you had a chance to put the boat in the water?

Ray

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Image
"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
In addition to this project, I'm also working on my other project, our '98 Jeep, but I'm going to try to put it in this weekend if the weather holds out.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:36 pm 
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rpengr wrote:
LouC wrote:
Ray how often do you replace your manifolds/risers in Fla?
Every 5 years or so?

In the past, I had tried to get at least 7-8 years out of them, but I trailer the boat, and run 5+ min in fresh water after each salt water use. The last set I pushed past 10 years on the old 4.3L because they were no longer available. I had "cleaned them out" a couple times with a wire rod, and some acid. They were still staying cool enough, but eventually it rusted through and leaked water directly into two cylinders. So 10 years was definitely too long!



The longest I ever used my batwings was 5.5-6 seasons, but this boat was always on the mooring and never flushed till the end. Never had even a hint of water in the cyls from those manifolds, changed at those intervals.....
You know Ray the interesting thing is, standard Volvo center riser V6 exhaust fits the V6 OMC Cobra like it was designed to! I figured this out, by studying parts diagrams on both the Crowley Marine and Volvopentaparts site. While some have used kits put out by OSCO and GLM, there was no reason all along why you could not simply use the same system both Volvo and OMC used on the joint venture engines made from 94-98. The only extra things you have to buy, are the Volvo 90* elbows that mate the 4" riser hose to the 3.5" Y pipe. These parts are expensive, like $200 each but its either that, or a cheap GLM copy of the same thing, which might be OK in freshwater but not in salt. The benefit for us salt water folks is that after the conversion, you can use normal aftermarket Barr manifolds and risers, which can be bought for around $650-700 or so. The last pair of batwings I bought, were priced out at $410 each and that was like 10 years ago!
I have also been cataloging which Volvo parts will fit OMC Cobras, like the steering actuator and cooling hoses. Just in case I need it one day......

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:59 am 
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Lou:
I think I remember the last pair of "bat wing" manifolds I bought was about $700/pair. I usually used them until rust prevented so much waterflow that they would get too hot. I would clean them out and try to use them longer. I had more time then money back then with my 1987 OMC cobra 4.3L. I knew I could convert to the Volvo setup for maybe $1100+, but I tried to put it off too long, and got my first ever rust-thru resulting in the hydrolocked engine.

As I've mentioned before, I sold that boat AS-IS for cheap, and joined the Four Winns family by moving up to my 2000 Horizon 240. It had 12 year old (original) manifolds that had 10 years in fresh water and 2 years in salt/brackish. With that history, they were declining very rapidly with my mixed salt usage. Apparently, 10 years of fresh water usage opens up plenty of micro crevices or weak areas that allow the salt water to work its damage much faster than on new manifolds. So I replaced the manifolds after my first year with the Horizon 240, which is now 4 years ago. Before my Nov 10th trip, I will take them off, inspect, and post pictures.

Ray

_________________
Image
"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
Sounds about right. The fact that you flush it means you will likely get more time out of the manifolds at least, even if you have to replace the risers. The main thing with a set that has been used is getting the sealing surfaces good enough so that the riser gaskets don't leak. Volvo changed their riser design several times, now they use a type of composite metal gasket that is not supposed to get any sealer. I used the Barr gaskets which are a composite fiber/metal gasket + Permatex Aviation sealer, as per the Barr tech's advice. Also used the Permatex on the threads of the bolts for the manifolds & risers.
The problem with cleaning out exhaust ports/risers is that what you're cleaning out, used to be cast iron! I've actually replaced that OMC/Volvo style thermostat housing 2x in 15 years because they get just about as rusty as an exhaust riser and those ports that feed the manifolds start to get clogged with flaking rust chunks.
I think you get the worst rust where you have salt water flow with engine running but then it drains and is exposed to air when the engine is off. Like the riser outlets and the upper inside of the thermo housing.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:07 pm 
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LouC wrote:
Sounds about right. The fact that you flush it means you will likely get more time out of the manifolds at least, even if you have to replace the risers. The main thing with a set that has been used is getting the sealing surfaces good enough so that the riser gaskets don't leak. Volvo changed their riser design several times, now they use a type of composite metal gasket that is not supposed to get any sealer. I used the Barr gaskets which are a composite fiber/metal gasket + Permatex Aviation sealer, as per the Barr tech's advice. Also used the Permatex on the threads of the bolts for the manifolds & risers.
The problem with cleaning out exhaust ports/risers is that what you're cleaning out, used to be cast iron! I've actually replaced that OMC/Volvo style thermostat housing 2x in 15 years because they get just about as rusty as an exhaust riser and those ports that feed the manifolds start to get clogged with flaking rust chunks.
I think you get the worst rust where you have salt water flow with engine running but then it drains and is exposed to air when the engine is off. Like the riser outlets and the upper inside of the thermo housing.

True, I have drilled out those passageways on the thermostat housing, then replace on the next cycle. After all the years of use, my 1987 looked very good in the engine passageway that could be seen under the thermostat housing, but the risers and thermostat housing really corrode.

I don't like the idea of the Volvo metal gasket with no sealer. Seams like a recipe for galvanic corrosion. I guess the coating it comes with is a sealer, but it seems too thin to do much. I did use them, but I coated both sides with Tef-Gel, which completely blocks water out of any small gaps. The inventor of Tef-Gel (Bob Morganthal) is a friend and lives here in West Palm Beach. He said that a little bit will probably burn out at the actual exhaust passageway, but the rest of it should stay in there. I'm looking forward to see how it held up. BTW, I used Tef-Gel on all the stainless steel hardware on my aluminum trailer, and it does a great job of preventing dissimilar metal (galvanic) corrosion.

_________________
Image
"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
I've actually heard good things about the Tef Gel stuff on trailer applications. It'll be a while before I can report on how well the Barr riser gaskets hold up. I briefly thought of trying to convert the exhaust to the Merc dry joint system. However they are more expensive and I could not find a set I could borrow to see if they would match up to the OMC Y pipe. It is a better design for the sealing of the exhaust risrrs but of course they can still rust through if you use em too long.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


Top
 Profile  
 
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