www.iFourWinns.com

I was in our local West Marine and saw the pallets of Antifreeze that always makes me a little sad!
I used the -100 for years because it is good stuff albeit a bit expensive. You will need about 5 gallons to do the whole job. About $10 a gallon. When I mix up the Sierra 50/50 it comes to about $6.50 a gallon. $13 a gallon full strength which you would never use.
Keep in mind a lot of freshwater boaters never use AF. AF is really to reduce corrosion. To prevent freeze damage you drain, this is straight out of Merc shop manual. One thing, never ever use the suck AF up the drive kits. Unless you drain the engine first they do not work, the stat will not open and you will have manifolds full of AF and an engine still full of water. First year I tried that and then checked the drains, no AF! So ever since I have been a fan of draining, poking the drains, and back filling if you want to use AF. Those winterizing kits only work on engines with closed cooling. Which is what my next engine will have.

I'm in costal Long Island so the coldest we ever get is about zero, so the Sierra is fine for me.
BTW, every year I go up to the NASCAR race at Watkins Glen. Beautiful country up there. We used to vacation in Bovina Center NY at a farm that was kind of like a big bed and breakfast. Red Pine Farm. Great place, it is now still a dairy farm.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Where’s the best place to get the Sierra stuff from?

Watkins Glen is nice, same with the finger lakes region. I’m originally from the Albany area and have boated the Adirondacks all my life. I love it here.

I used to go to LI a lot in the college days. Levittown and Glen Head mainly. Haven’t been down there in a while. Usually go to the boat show at the Javits Center every year.

_________________
2006 Four Winns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi/SX

You can get it at Ace Hardware.
We boat on the North Shore of LI and on nice days can go out in the Sound near Eaton’s Neck.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Nice. Must be amazing to boat down there. There are some fairly large lakes up here but nothing like the ocean.

_________________
2006 Four Winns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi/SX

Local hardware store has -50 RV antifreeze for 4.99 a gallon. Is this stuff no good to use?

*edit* looks like -50 is a no-no for engines, or areas with deep freezes like up here.

I'm prob just going to use that Sierra stuff. Cheap and gets the job done.

_________________
2006 Four Winns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi/SX

it is nice, but boats like ours are not really big enough/seaworthy enough for anything other than a calm day out in the Sound. The old '88 has a good ride in the chop being a 21* deadrise but I don't like the open bow in open waters. I keep the bow cover on at all times when in the Sound or if its getting rough even in the bays.
This is why my next boat has to be a self bailing, fully foam filled hull with outboard power only. For safety and freedom from the headaches of I/O maintenance in salt water.

As far as the antifreeze, the main thing is to make sure you get a 50/50 mix, to ensure adequate freeze protection. Keep in mind that you can't check the freeze point with a regular hydrometer because they are for ethylene glycol mixtures and the Sierra is a propylene glycol (no tox) mixture. I found a few Sierra style hydrometers with the floating balls and I use that to determine the freeze point. I also checked the strength of the -100 from West Marine and (-100 is burst temp not freeze temp) the freeze temp on that is approx. -45* F in the samples I checked. If you think you might get colder than -26* (hard to imagine) you can go with a 60/40 or even 70/30 mix. However, if you don't want the bother of this, the -100 is a good safe alternative. I used it for years never had an issue.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I have plenty of jugs for mixing. I just figured I could save a few bucks by using the Sierra stuff versus placing an order @ West Marine for the -100.

I boat mainly on Great Sacandaga Lake, and it can get wavy. I was out once where I didn't feel comfortable stopping because I thought the waves would come over the bow. It was nuts. I kept the bow up and went 10 mph for about 5 miles back to calmer waters. I love the bowrider for day use but I have thought about a cuddy for my next boat. A Sundowner S215 would be nice.

_________________
2006 Four Winns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi/SX

True but there are very few cuddys or walk around boats available any more. They are more practical in bad weather or rough water but do not sell well. I am looking at Key West dual console boats, they are a good alternative to regular bowriders because they are built for salt water and are self bailing and have the same style seating as a bowrider. The main choice is what outboard power, Evinrude, Yamaha or Mercury. I am leaning toward Evinrude.
I was amazed how deep Senaca Lake is by Watkins Glen. Like 600 ft! The deepest LI Sound gets is about 130 feet or so. In the morning you can get glass calm seas but in the afternoon as it gets windier it gets rough.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Lou,
If I'd known about the Four Winns Coast Runners when we were looking for our boat 7 years ago, I would have hunted one of those down! Open bow, outboard power, self-bailing, plenty of room, and 20'+ in length to take choppy waters better. I just found out about this model earlier this year and there doesn't appear to be many of them for sale, especially here in TX. But if I found one for the right price, I'd sell my H180 and drive to Florida to pick it up!

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

65 gallon gas tank in those things!

_________________
2006 Four Winns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi/SX

That Coast Runner was a nice design. I find the modern FW outboard designs awkward looking to say the least. Not crazy about an outboard mounted to a swim platform, even if it is beefed up to be strong enough. While I have said that modern outboards are very expensive to repair, even so I don't think I would want another sterndrive since their advantages of lower cost are not as salient now as they all have EFI and cat converter exhaust. The cat exhaust is a deal breaker in salt water due to the very high cost of replacing manifolds and elbows.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Im sorry but can I get clarification - am I filling the big fat hose from the top, until antifreeze comes out of my block drains, OR am I filling the thermostat housing??

Also, my 1997 4.3Gi (TBi) engines have those stupid plugs in front of the intake manifolds that the manual says "MUST" be removed to drain the intake manifold when winterizing. To achieve this, I have to remove the thermostat housing anyways, to get a stupid wrench on the stupid plug. Its that, or remove the alternator support bracket. A few years ago, I removed the thermostat housing and shop vacc'ed the intake manifold out, lol. However, Im always looking for (safe) shortcuts!

_________________
1997 Four Winns Vista 278
T - 4.3l EFI
Kohler 4esz Genset
379 hours as of 8/8/21

Ok what you want to do is get the engine and intake drains out first before adding AF. There is a difference between the old style Pre-Vortec V6 (the one I have) and the newer style Vortec in that yes that drain plug must be removed. So remove the block drains, poke the holes, intake manifold plug and the bottom end of the big hose from the thermo housing to the circulating pump at the bottom end. Then reconnect the big hose at the bottom and disconnect it at the top. You can then start filling that big hose till AF comes out the drains for the block; this pushes out the last of the water. Then put some gasket sealer on the threads of the block and replace them. Keep filling till the AF comes out the intake drain and then replace that plug with a bit of gasket sealer. Then just finish filling till the AF comes out the thermo neck; then reconnect the hose. Do the same with the exhaust manifolds. I also put the drive down and disconnect the raw water intake hose at the thermo housing (Cobra&Alpha) or impeller housing (Bravo&Volvo). Then hold that hose down to drain the water. And hold it up and fill it with AF till it runs out the drive water intakes. This also drains and flushed the p/s cooler on the back of the engine.

PS I tested my mix of Sierra no tox AF in the freezer. As cold as the freezer can get (-6–>-8*F), it’s 100% liquid.

As far as getting the intake plug out I’d try an offset ratcheting box wrench to avoid having to remove the thermo housing

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Lou, Thank you.

First off, I removed the thermostat housing, which is a PITA on my boat as there are wiring looms (EFI) that rest around it. But, I got the plug off the front of the intake manifold and guess how much water came out? NONE, zero. I looked into the intake manifold through the thermostat housing and it was mostly dry

Lol. Just my luck anyways..... on the bright side, the thermostat bolts were a bear to remove, they are all rusty. At the very least, this allows me to clean them up, and apply some never seize onto them.

I poured about 1/2 gallon of -100 through the big fat hose going to the water pump (the automotive style one, NOT the one with the impeller inside), and it came out of my block drains. I then did my usual of pouring some antifreeze back through the water hose that comes in from the outdrive, which includes my power steering cooler. So I am declaring my port engine done.

Going to finish my starboard engine in my garage - it is being pulled next week so that I can also pull my Kohler generator, which stopped producing power this season. $$$$$$ That engine has already been completely drained of water. Im not going to bother with the intake manifold plug, seeing the results on my port engine.

Anyway, just a reminder to those of us with fuel coolers, to make sure to clear those of water too. I use compressed air to blow them out every year. I generally have an OCD routine of my own that i do every year, but this year I am too busy and appreciate any easier methods than what i do (Which is remove every single hose and plug, flush with -100f antifreeze, and blow out my water heater heat exchanger, PS cooler, and fuel cooler. Never had a problem in 7 seasons with this boat, thank god!

_________________
1997 Four Winns Vista 278
T - 4.3l EFI
Kohler 4esz Genset
379 hours as of 8/8/21

Interesting about the intake not having water in it. I have not had my eyes on a Vortec V6 intake so its hard for me to imagine why it does not drain via the ports that line up with the ports in the cyl heads, like the old ones do, but maybe they hold water depending on the angle of the boat/engine, etc.
Eventually I will have to repower this boat and I may go with a new GM Marine V6 Vortec, so I'll learn about it then. Of course for my use the engine will not hit salt water till I install at least a half closed cooling system, so it will be a moot point. The closed cooling system will make the engine last longer and the winterizing will be easier too.

On the thermostat housing bolts I use OMC gasket sealer, or Permatex Aviation sealer. Same on the gasket. Never any leaks and bolts always come out even with 100% salt water use. I was surprised that my old intake didn't rust through after all these years. I bought a spare one on ebay from Michigan fresh water because the marine intakes for the old style non vortec V6s are hard to find. The only real damage from salt water I found during my top end engine overhaul last year was that the cooling passages in the cyl heads got eroded, and the guys at the machine shop felt that the heads would not seal well against the head gasket. Also salt water boaters know that the GM cast iron blocks don't usually rust through but the heads sometimes do. So I went for a pair of set of re-man marine cyl heads for the rebuild...the block looked good apart from internal corrosion which you will get even in salt water. 1st pic is old heads in the back of my Jeep.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yyauruiipe64 ... 0.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k18krrafa3489 ... k.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fhnjbtutfjej ... 2.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n9z4y4puche6t ... 1.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yyytu26xgohe ... 1.JPG?dl=0

not really a hard job, just a lot of cleaning of old parts and organizing stuff.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II