www.iFourWinns.com

Well guys it looks like my season may be over before it's even started! I rushed all week to put together the boat and last night we launched on it's 2008 maiden voyage. We planned a 5 mile trip to our creek slip. We backed in and I started the motor... I noticed some oil residue on the surface but thought it was just the fogging agent I used last year being expelled. I pulled away from the trailer and headed to home... I got less than a quarter there when the guages went instantly to low oil pressure and the engine cut back on the rev limiter... I shut her down and looked behind me to find an oil slick! I had forgot my cell phone so I puttered back to the creek with the oil light on and the ecu beeping at me! I checked the oil and found there was none showing on the dipstick eventhough I had checked it earlier in my yard. I went to the house and gathered another four quarts... They got added and the motor only idles for less than five minutes with all normal on the guages before the oil pressure drops and the alarm goes off. The exhaust being expelled is milky white!

Obviously my cheap a$$ has cost me a motor in the boat, I have become the first one on the forum (this year) to have damage from poor winterization... My buddy who helped me has had boats for twenty five years and never had a problem. It seems he normally pulls the thermostat housing and pours antifreeze down there but we didn't do that because he didn't want to crack the paint on my new looking motor!

Deep inside I cried my self to sleep last night (underneath all the cursing and swearing)
I'm pissed off at myself for not spending the money to have it winterized professionally! I'm mad at my buddy for not letting me decide whether or not to crack the paint on the motor.

I went through alot of time and effort to source my boat, negotiate the deal, travel 6 hrs each way to pick it up and hold two boats for the winter. I had saved 12 K last fall by doing all this and now I see similar boats to mine priced at only 5K more than I paid before negotiation!
It seem my barely used 180 hour motor will be getting overhauled or replaced as soon as I diagnose the problem and can afford to do it.. For now I'll have to get her back to the launch and she'll wait on the trailer.
P.S. It's a good thing I don't have a gun collection like 230Mike because my buddy would probably be dead and the boat would be sunk from all the holes in it!

Any ideas what may be cracked I have hardly slept all night trying to figure this out.

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Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Man that's a sad story!!!
How did you winterize it? Suck the AF up the drive, or just drain?
Now you want to check what you can to find out what went wrong, is there water in the oil (oil higher than normal on dipstick, milky appearance?) if so you may have a cracked block and heads. Typically you can see external cracks on the side of the block, but there can also be internal cracks that will put cooling water into the oil circuit.
When I winterize, I drain everything manually, (lower drive first so it and impeller housing on Cobra drains) then I pull the big hose on the circulating pump completely off , that drains part of the block and intake manifold, then I pull the block drains and rod em out with a screw (salt water corrosion makes them clog). Same with the manifolds, drain and rod out with a screw. Finally I pull off the raw water intake hose and drain it down in the bilge, and pull the drain on the power steering cooler for good measure (although draining the intake hose also drains the cooler usually). Then I reattach the big hose at the bottom of the circu pump. Start filling with -100 AF, till a little comes out each block drain. Then replace drain plugs in block (smear OMC triple guard grease on plugs so they don't corrode in place). Fill till AF comes out of thermo housing NO NEED to remove thermo. Replace other end of big hose on thermo housing. Next same with manifolds, remove hoses at thermo housing, pour AF in till a little comes out drain, then replace drain and fill manifold. Finally do the same with raw water intake hose, then replace hose on thermo housing. Some AF will probably come out the water intakes Last crank engine over like one turn to get AF in impeller housing.
THAT, is the only SAFE way to use AF to winterize a raw water cooled sterndrive. If in freshwater you really don't need AF, just make sure it's all drained. And always rod out drain openings, a lot of water is held in the block, at least 2-3 gallons on a small block, more on a big block.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

It's still making me sick to even think about it!

When we winterized it, I pulled the drain plugs on each side of the block, removed the rubber caps from the exhaust manifold and took the hoses off of the seawater pump and water pump. All of these lines were dumped into the bilge and drained out the rear drain plug, We probably got ten gallons from the bilge ater and motor water. No antifreeze was put in the block anywhere.

I was talking to my buddy this morning and he reminded me that we had an overnight freeze of -3 C to - 5C the week before the Saturday we did the winterization. This is probably when the damage happened! I'm hoping we have cracked a head or something because that is the cheapest fix... The oil seems to be getting mixed directly with the exhaust? I,m going to try and pull it back out this weekend some time and do compression tests on the motor to try and pinpoint a "problem" area.

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Well basically you did do the right thing but unfortunately your friend is probably correct, that dip in temp if for long enough could have done it.
-3 to -5 C is like 26-23 degrees F which is definitely cold enough to crack a block. I'll tell you if I ever replace the motor in this boat for sure I want to put closed cooling on it, just to make draining faster/easier. Although as it is now, I can drain it all in about 20 min if needed. Usually as a matter of habit if I have pulled it out in Oct I will flush out the salt water and drain it just in case I can't fully winterize but I ususally try to winterize on a nice 65 F day in Oct so I'm not freezing my fingers off.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I'm trying to get the courage up to go and buy ten quarts of oil so I can take the boat back to the ramp without causing any further damage to the lower end in case it is a easy fix... I think I may consider a closed loop cooling system on the next motor!
The funny thing is it's almost as if I knew because I have been bugging all my buddies that I want to repower all winter only to get them going since the boat is barely broken in... I guess I may get my wish (expensive)! I saw a 8.1 l 425 hp Volvo Penta on ebay for 6500 but I am not sure if all my electronics will still work...

The research, and hassles have only just begun, I may even end up with a divorce over this one! The wife is not overly happy since "we had a perfectly good boat last year but I insisted on a larger one....blah,blah,blah,blah..... And how exactly are we going to pay for this new motor?"

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

If you wind up having to get a new motor, and I would recommend a new one just because rebuilts can run the gamut from good to terrible, go over to http://www.iboats.com and look in the i/o section, there are a lot of very knowledgable people there, who can give feed back about different vendors. I have looked at Jasper and Michigan Motorz, both have pretty good prices and for you the thing would be shipping and duty charges I guess. I'd also speak to some marine mechanics to see what experience they have had.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Marc,

You may want to try Bullet Engines here in Kingston. I am not sure what they have to offer in a stock rebuild but they build some very high dollar/high horsepower engine packages for the offshore crowd. I found their small block street rod packages used to be reasonably priced. If they can't hook you up with an 7.4L then I am sure they have some good sources for a replacement if you require one. They may even be able to rebuild your powerplant if the block is still sound.

Damn boats never stop costing money but we love them!

I am not sure where you launch but if you haven't retrieved your boat yet I may be able to help out and give a tow back to the ramp and then you just have to run the motor to get it on the trailer. PM me if you are interested.

Sorry for your luck with the motor but at least the deal you got in the US will take some of the sting out the repair.

Steve

Dang. So sorry to hear this!

For what it's worth -- I had something come up at the beginning of the season a couple of years ago that I thought might be season ending. I got it to the dealer ASAP rather than fussing with it anymore myself. It got fixed, it was better than new, and it didn't take all that long. My advice to you is to do the same. Get a solid diagnosis, weigh your options, make a decision and get back on the water.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Thanks, Steve for the offer but read on... there is good news on the horizon..

After getting out of my "doom and gloom" slump yesterday morning.... I did some "solid diagnosis" of my own.... I packed up a six pack (in case the diagnosis was BAD!!) and a tool box and headed for the boat early yesterday morning... I knew that I was getting oil directed directly into the exhaust stream because it was coming out like a milkshake! I started tracing all the possible sources of oil and low and behold I discovered this:



It's the oil cooler. It sits way low beside the oil pan and was a real bitch to pull out. Good thing I had that extra room in the port storage area..



Once I had it out, some simple "finger over holes and blow" tests revealed I have a bypass! The location of this unit makes sense that we never were able to drain it and it froze and split. Unfortunately it split internally, if it had split externally I would have just had to weld it back together and pressure test it. But instead I have to buy a replacement, my research tells me it is VP #3854113, Can anyone confirm?

I now have to drain all the oil and get the new one replaced so I can try running it again and hope there is no other damage.

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Sounds like you're a lot "less screwed" than you were a few days ago! Glad to hear you're getting a reprieve from that engine death sentence.

How long did it take you to stuff yourself down into that engine compartment? Heh. I put a grill pedestal in our 348 last weekend. Securing the screws was an effort, but it paled in comparison to the job of wedging my 6'4" "well fed" frame in the space. Those hose clamps left bruises I can still see a week later. I'm just glad I didn't buy the 340 SeaRay, due to their terribly tight engine compartments you practically have to be a circus contortionist just to do REGULAR maintenance on it!

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Sorry to hear about your problems, but glad to hear it may be limited to the oil cooler. I hope that is all it is, and that you can get right back after it for a relatively cheap repair bill.

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

I LOVE that test!!

Great to hear you're on the way to a fix!

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Heheheeh...... I actually just used that test to tell a guy how to diagnose his purge valve (on a late model BMW) for a vacuum leak. (I do all the tech question stuff here, at work).

Marc ... glad to hear of the potentially good news! It's a shame to see the demise of ANY good Chevy Big Block !

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Gordon Arnold
New Hampshire

2003 268 Vista ..................................................................Prior: 97 245 Sundowner

I hope for sure that was your problem. You can check the part # on the volvo section of
http://www.dougrussell.com
they have all the diagrams and parts #s with prices.

BTW looking at how you got yourself wedged in there, I'd want a prop rod to hold that seat up just incase the hydraulic struts decide to give up on you!

I bet that cooler failure is not that uncommon. The old OMC I have does not have an engine oil cooler but it does have a power steering cooler on the back of the engine that is similar. It is really hard to reach but I have removed the drain plug every year anyway. Even tho disconnecting the raw water hose really does drain the cooler on mine, I still pull the plug out to be sure.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I looked on dougrussell.com and that's the right #, list price is 230.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II