www.iFourWinns.com

All my belts popped off the engine. I'll explain why below -- it's interesting reading. BUT, I am such a mechanical nerd I haven't a clue as to how to pop them back on. Do I need a special tool? Loosen some bolts? Or just have the Four Winns shop do it?

All three belts popped off. Ford 351 engine. Sundown 205.

Now as to why? My wife was helping cast us off from the dock. The engine was on and I had the cover off the engine inspecting the bilge. She threw the line right on top of the engine, and like a slow-motion movie I gasped in horror as I watched the line slowly slip down into the bilge and get caught up in the belts. They got so cinched up the engine stopped immediately. It happened in a milisecond. We were at idle, obviously. My wife felt terrible.

I managed to cut out the line and was able to restart the engine momentarily, but the belts were all off -- so I cut the engine and we pulled out.

Did we do any damage to the engine with that trick?

Thanks, all. You have helped me in the past and it's much appreciated.

Mark

I don't think you would have hurt the engine unless it momentarily ran in reverse. If the belts haven't been changed in the last couple of years, I'd take this opportunity to changed them out.

If you look, the alternator and other components can be loosened and moved to allow the new belts to be put on. Get them on, put some pressure on the alternator for example and tighten down once you have the belt taught.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Replacing belts is easily done. For each belt there will be at least one device on the loop that has a 'pivot point'. The alternator is the most common place for this. There are usually two bolts holding the alternator to the engine. One is usually a short bolt that fits through an arc-shaped arm. The other is a long bolt that it pivots around. You usually need to loosen both enough to get the sweep of the arc moving with slight bit of tension. Then move the alternator along that arc and tighten the short bolt. Sometimes it's helpful to use something as a lever to help move the alternator. A long-handled screwdriver, block of wood, etc. The belts SHOULD NEVER be too tight, so don't go pulling too hard on the alternator. If you make the belts too tight you cause undue pressure on the bearings and they'll burn out (not right away, but a whoooooole lot sooner than they should). Then go back and tighten the long bolt. When you've got the correct amount of tension on the belt it typically allows the belt to move in/out about an inch each way. The other belt (since you mentioned 'belts' plural) is likewise tightened up by something else. Not having that engine in my boat I couldn't tell you what. But there should be a similar sort of arc, pivot or tensioner that can be moved to tighten the belt.

You'll want to have box-end wrenches along with both short and deep sockets. The back sides of the bolts typically need a box-end wrench, sometimes a short one, long one or even one with a curve in it. You hold that back side nut with the box-end while you tighten with the socket. Again, depending on how the belt clears the bolt it make take a short, long or even an extension to get the socket on it.

The bolts need to be tight but don't overdo it. For an actual "bolt and nut" you probably wouldn't be completely screwed if you broke it by overtightening it. You'd just be snappng the bolt and you could pull the broken halves out. But for a bolt that screws into something (without a nut on the back) you'd be in deep trouble, often requiring a drill and tools to back-out the snapped bolt shaft. As in, don't overtighten.

Back in high school gear-head days we always used to joke "tighten 'til it breaks, and then back off a half turn". You get a feel for it after a while. Or you could use a torque wrench. But if you're not going to use it a lot something like a torque wrench is a pretty expensive addition to the tool chest, one you'd rarely use otherwise.

You want to snug these bolts up tight but not to the point of using a long handled wrench and two arms pulling like an ox.

Here's a photo of the engine:

1. I can see a bolt/slider BEHIND the wheel. An open end should find it -- it goes directly into the engine, so this is one I would NOT want to torque too much?

2. Alternator has a bolt behind it with another slider, I'd want to loosen that?

3. The most difficult one, small bolt out of sight, so I'd be doing this by feel, but I can feel where it would slide up and down.

WHITE ARROWS: Loosen only to give the first two some play?

What do you think? Good plan?

Thanks!

mark

Sounds to me that you've got the plan laid out.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Well, here's how it turned out. A friend grabbed a deep socket wrench and we grabbed the nut of the hub wheel and torqued it (turned it clockwise) as we applied pressure to each belt at it's respective wheel and each belt one-by-one simply SLIPPED ON. How easy was that?

We started her up to check the integrity of the belts only to find that the water pump was now leaking, it had popped a seal. One drop every 10 seconds or so, but leaking nonetheless. The aforementioned dock line was twisted hardest against that wheel (lower left in picture, in front of the water pump) so perhaps the sudden jerk to a halt loosened a seal.

Consequently, the belts are coming off again, along with the water pump and we'll put a new seal on there. Heading for the San Juan Islands in a few weeks, so I can't take a chance.

Thanks, everyone, for all your assistance.

BTW -- in talking with my repair guy today I mentioned that 'Maybe I should keep a spare set of belts on board." He said it's not necessary. Engine belts last a longggggggg time. And that the way I service my boat we'd notice wear long before they fail. Boat belts don't get the kind of use car belts do.

Anyone carry sets of belts on board?

Spare

1. Belt
2. Fuel/Water Separator
3. Impeller
4. Spark plugs
5. fuses
6. Power steering fluid
7. Transmition/Trim fluid
8. Oil Filters
9. Oil
10. Gear Lube
11. Misc sized wood plugs

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

This is a good topic...we should start a new thread.

As far as spares go, the part you are most likely to have to replace on the water is a PROP. Carry a spare prop nut and cotter pin too. The spare need not be a perfect brand new prop. Dont forget the tools to change it.

Each person has to evaluate how they use their boat to determine what spares to carry. I check the oil and other fluids before going out. In the course of one day, these are not going to need topping off for me. Sparkies? I'm not going to change those on the water. If my engine needs sparkies, those will have been replaced long before I launched my boat. Now a belt could break..I'd like to think I would replace that before it got that old.

There is not a black and white answer to your question. The answer is what is right for you and your boat useage.

Some folks would rather carry the extra gear and never need it. To be honest, nothing wrong with that. I hope I never need my spare prop (again).

Have fun!

Seal? More like shaft. If something got bound up in there tight enough to disrupt the water pump I'd worry that it bent something related to the shaft of the pump itself. That's where all the torque would be going and I'd expect the leak to crop up around that long before a seal to the block. Don't know how that pump works but on an auto a shaft leak is often a sure indicator you need to replace the pump itself, not just the gasket/seal facing the block.

As for spare belts, I don't (yet) bother to carry any. I've got twin engines so there's already a 'spare' built in. That and I've got towing service. Mine have a single serpentine belt so I suppose a spare would be worth considering. But given how long they'd last I'd be more concerned that a spare sitting around unused would rot out. But given how cheap the belts are likely to be for your engine I'd certainly consider having at least a spare for the water pump if not also the alternator and steering.

As for your numbered plan, that works, but don't forget about the bolts on the pivot side. If they're loose enough to let you pivot the the units then you'll certainly want to go back and snug them up. Vibration is not your friend on an engine and loose things cause trouble down the line.

UPDATE: We took apart the water pump and everything *appears* in order. There is a worry that a bearing is beginning to show its age, but in our opinion it's not yet time to retire the water pump. So a seal goes back on today and we'll fire her up again. Pray she's watertight.

BY THE WAY -- Seeing your list(s) of things you carry (about the only 'extra' I carry is a spare prop) makes me want to take a side trip to West Marine. Because lately with my luck, I may add 'flare gun and flares' to my list. Mark