www.iFourWinns.com

Gang, you are always helpful so I thought I'd run this by you first:

Boat: 205 Sundowner (1996), 5.1L Fuel Injected Ford engine, Volvo Penta Drive.

Was running great while touring the San Juan Islands when, after a prolonged ride at about 3500rpms I powered down to dock at the marina and the engine sounded (and felt) *rough*.

Next day it was difficult to start. Normally a fuel injected engine fires at first contact. No, it took 15 seconds of turning over before it caught, and it ran rough. You could see the engine shaking on the motor mounts, enough for me to notice the difference (it usually is stock still, smooth)

With a full load (7 persons) I could barely get out of the hole when powering up. The RPM at WOT (wide open throttle) was 2500, and climbed as the boat s-l-o-w-l-y planed to speed of 35mpg at about 3500rpm, still feeling rough - as if the prop was deep in the water - a bit of a vibration.

Here's another clue: While cruising at this speed there were three instances during the 16-mile trip where we hit a bump (small wake) and the boat engine them seemed to pitch higher (run smooth, like the engine I know), it noticeably jumped in speed for about 10 seconds, then we hit another wake (bump) and it slowed to the rough sound, slightly slower speed again. This happened 3 times within 3 minutes, then never happened again.

Later, I could not get out of the hole at start up unless people stood forward towards the cuddy. So I clearly know the engine is not running at top performance.

I did smell some gasoline, but not around the engine oddly enough. I could not see any fuel leakage around the engine, however I did notice a film on the water at the stern. Could be my imagination, as this marina is pretty dingy to begin with. There was nothing obvious.

Your best guess:
Computer/firing problem?
Fuel injection problem?
Fuel filter? (I will look there first...just didn't have to tools on hand)
Something more sinister?

I just had the engine rebuilt about 50 hours ago, so i can't imagine it's another blown valve. I *did* hear clicking while trying the WOT out of the hole, but it was nothing I have not heard before when putting a load on the engine/prop.

Thanks,

Mark

_________________
Four Winns 1996 Sundowner 205
5.0fi/SX engine (Volvo Penta)

First, try a simple tune up. Sounds to me like one or more plugs/wires bad and not burning fuel completely/power loss. possibly making intermediate contact in the bumps. Just my first thing to try.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

I agree with Walt - bad ignition leads would be my first choice...

_________________


Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

Did you do an oil change 20 hours after your rebuild? If not do one your well overdue!

Do the tune up. Check your fuel filter for water while doing the tune up. Just to be safe do a compression check when you pull the plugs.

When was the last time your cap and rotor were done? I had something similar symptoms in mine fixed when I replaced my cap in rotor.

_________________
Walter

2003 248 Vista - VP 5.0 GXi
2009 Toyota Tundra SR5 5.7L 4x4

Yes, the oil has been changed. As for a tune up, you might be on to something. I did have a complete winterization done on the boat last fall, but am not sure it included a tune-up as I ran the boat barely 20 hours last season. In fact, I cannot recall ever asking for a tune-up (assumed it was part of the winterization package at the shop I work with). Oil was changed for sure, and still looks fresh. Can't speak for the plugs but i will have it all looked at this week and report back.

Thanks everyone.

_________________
Four Winns 1996 Sundowner 205
5.0fi/SX engine (Volvo Penta)

Maybe run an ohm meter on the leads to see if you have one with a high resistance reading... supression leads are a bit of a dog for this. Another quick way to visually check your leads is run the motor when it is real dark - if the leads are bad, you'll see the arcing.

_________________


Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

If you have a spray bottle that sprays a fine mist you can mist over the wires and see the wires that are worn or cracked arc to the nearest metal object. You don't have to soak everything - jusy a couple of sprays with a nice mist.
DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO GRAB A LEAD WHEN IT IS RUNNING!!! Damn that hurts.

_________________
2008 Four Winns 210 5.7 GI/SX
2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Crew
1966 Fed-Up Wife

It gets more intriguing -- and more expensive.

I took it to a shop who called to tell me that after an hour of diagnosis they could get no compression in cylinder 1.

I explained to them that there were instances where, as I was WOThrottle and the engine was weak, we hit a small wake and all of a sudden it would run smoothly (and push the boat faster), only to return to the laborious pace after hitting another small wake. So the jolts to the boat had *something* to do with it -- I cannot figure out what.

They wanted to pull the power head off. That's a $500 job just for labor.

I said no, I would take it to the shop that did a rebuild for me 2 years ago.

I am still hoping it's electrical, but the shop tells me they got spark from the plug -- just no compression.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

_________________
Four Winns 1996 Sundowner 205
5.0fi/SX engine (Volvo Penta)

I'd only say for that kind of money (and what may be following) a 2nd opinion isn't a bad idea.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Pull the valve cover off and take a look at the springs, rockers and push rods if there is something wrong with any 1 its an easy fix.

Most often the lifter looses prime and the push rod comes off and wedges next to the rocker and holds the valve open that might explain the loss of compression.

Hope this helps good luck Gregg

I better add on ford engines #1 is on the left side facing the engine from the front or most engines #1 is usually the head that is in front of the other.

Gregg

Sounds like deja-vu Mark, had a similar experience with my elderly mothers Nissan - the Nissan dealer says after 35k miles it had no compression and needed a full engine rebuild $3000+... told him where to jump and took it somewhere else and had the computer replaced for under $300. Funny, seemed to fix the 'compression' problem as I suspected and has been running fine for the last 5 years..!! Sounds like your guy has either seen you coming or his comp gage doesn't work properly.

_________________


Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

Mark

Did you do the tests yourself? If not start there. I would do the compression test. While doing that check the cap, rotor and cables. Once you have done that report back.

_________________
Walter

2003 248 Vista - VP 5.0 GXi
2009 Toyota Tundra SR5 5.7L 4x4

FWIW. My guess is head gasket.

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I wish I had enough equipment/knowledge to do these tests other than basic troubleshooting. That is why I took it to a local marine shop. They tested for almost 2 hours, checking distributor, etc. and finally told me there was no compression in cylinder #1 and that they needed to pull the power head to figure out why.

Blown gasket is very possible -- the smell of gas, while not overwhelming -- sticks in my mind.

I am towing it to a marine mechanic that did a rebuild on that engine for me two years ago. He is as curious as I am, and suspects the shop I am dealing with doesn't know what they are doing. He thought there were other troubleshooting ideas that he could use to determine what is causing the problem -- so he'll look into it later this week.

In the meantime I appreciate *all* of your thoughts and ideas. I will share them with my guy when I drop the boat off tomorrow or the next day.

Mark

_________________
Four Winns 1996 Sundowner 205
5.0fi/SX engine (Volvo Penta)