www.iFourWinns.com

hi all,

I am complete novice to boating, I own a 205 sundowner with a Volvo V8 with a Holy carburetter ( year 2000). I only purchased the boat 2 months ago, the engine only had 190 hours on the clock, and things started going wrong almost immediatley. I noticed the engine seemed to be running rough and it would not rev above 3800, it had a complete service and a new inlet manifold before i took delivery of the boat.The old inlet manifold was corroded, the block itself is in very good condition. I went back to the brokerage and told the mechanic i was having problems, he checked the engine and said everything was fine. The next time i went out the engine cut out at low speed, there was a strong smell of petrol, on looking in the engine compartment there was petrol running down from the air filter on to the engine. I was towed back in by Seastart who informed me the carburettor was blocked. I contacted the local volvo dealership, they fitted a new carburretor, fuel pump and relay. On getting the boat back i went to start it and it made an awful noise, on inspection one of the bolts holding the starter motor in had snapped, they had to remove the engine and drill out the old bolt. They also informed me that two of the spark plug leads had worn through and the distributor cap was corroded, they replaced all of the leads and the cap. There was also petrol in the oil, they replaced the oil. The boat was then put back into the water, a second mechanic was then sent to do the timing, he informed me the distributor itself was corroded, in his words ' the springs which advance the timing and retard the timing under accelaration and deceleration had corroded and broken'. He then fitted a new distributor and told me all was good to go.
When i started the engine it still seemed to be running rough, at idle the revs would dip from 800 to 200, and sometimes the engine would stop altogether. When i tried to accelerate there was nothing, the engine sounded like it was flooding. I called the mechanic back, after about an hour he cut the cable from the ignition coil to the rev counter ( the boat has a VDO dash) and low and behold it started reving as normal, that is until the engine warms up and then it starts sound as though it is flooding again and it will not accelerate at all. I had to come back in today on tick over and it the engine was getting rougher all the time. Again I have petrol in the oil, there is a smell of petrol while I was trying to accelerate, but no petrol was leaking from the engine as before. The thermal trip next to the ignition was getting red hot. As luck would have it I then bumped into the mechanic from the volve dealership and I told him I was still experiancing the same problems, he was not very happy to see me but did say it was either an electrcial fault i.e something is draining the power so there is not enough power to supply the spark to the engine or the crankshaft bearings are worn and I am losing compression via the worn bearings and it will probaly cost me another £500.00 to find out.

Has anybody out there experianced a similar problem, can I bypass the dash altogether and still run the engine or should I call it a day and buy a new engine. Any information or advice will be appreciated.

regards

Martin

Martin,

You're not having much luck!

As the carburretor and fuel pump are new, I'd be inclined to initially discount them as the cause of the problem. Petrol in the oil is worrying and has the potential to cause excessive wear to a number of moving internal engine parts. Unless it's coming from a leaking mechanical fuel pump diaphragm dumping petrol into the sump ( like used to happen on old Ford UK and British Leyland engines), it can only be fuel from the cylinders. As the carb is new, for now I'd assume the correct ammount of fuel is going in. So why isn't it burning?

Have the spark plugs been checked/ cleaned/ gapped correctly?

How good a condition is the coil in ? (often they can be OK-ish when cold, but break down internally when hot, as can the ignition module; Incidentally, I thought that by the late 1990's they didn't use centrifugal weights/ springs anymore, timing advance/ retard being controlled by this module).

Was the mechanic employed by Volvo Penta? It worries me if that is the case and he came out with "or the crankshaft bearings are worn and I am losing compression via the worn bearings and it will probaly cost me another £500.00 to find out." The crank bearings may well by now be starting to wear due to the fuel in the oil, but they have no influence on the compression (unless something like a conrod lets loose and comes out of the side of the block! ). Compression is controlled by the sealing of the piston rings and valves. A cheap compression tester (<£25) and an hours work ( especially if you're taking the plugs out anyhow to check them), would tell you how the compression is. It can also be used to do a pressure leak down test; to determine if poor compression is due to the valves or piston rings.

Graham

hi graham,

its happened twice having fuel in the oil, the engine has only run for about 4 hours so hopefully no long term damage. the ignition coil is still the original, i was wondering if this could be the cause, a the moment it is pointing towards something electrical, i hope. that would make sense because when he cut the rev counter cable it did appear to stop.

the engine was compression tested when the survey was done, the results were all between 165 and 190. i did borrow a compression tester and redone it though my results were a lot lower, they were between 120 and 160. when i spoke to the engineer who did the initial survey he asked if i did cold or hot, i had done it cold, he said it needs to be done when the engine is hot, he said you cannot compression test this engine when cold.

at the moment i am not sure what to do next, i have very limited experiance with engines but the mechanics do not seem to be coming up with the answers.

the mechanic is employed by the local volve dealership, it was them i employed to sort this problem out.

regards

martin

Martin,

It sounds like the compression is nothing to worry about.

It seems to be almost certainly ignition related; is there any way you could borrow a coil from a similar engine ( Mercruiser of the same year would be the same I imagine). It doesn't look to be anything unusual on the enclosed drawings

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/VP_Schematics/GAS/5.OGL-A-B-C-D-E_5.7GL-A-B-C-D-E/IGNITION%20SYSTEM

Or even ask the local Volvo agent to lend you one, and if it works you'll pay for it; you've already paid them to sort it out and what they have done/ charged you for clearly hasn't worked ! I'm not certain whether the non marine version of the coil and module are the same. If the thermal cutout is getting as hot as you mentioned, something has too low a resistance/ is allowing too high a current; it could be the coil, if it's shorting out internally on the primary windings, the internal resistance will be low. Plus that would give a weak spark from the secondary windings.

Did they change the lead from the coil to the distributor, not just the plug leads?
Did they change the rotor arm ?( If the distributor cap was corroded, the arm would have been as well.

Graham

hi graham

the distributor on my boat is the first one in the drawings with the module inside the distribitor, as it is all brand new i should not have any problems there. i changed the lead from the distributor to the coil about 4 weeks ago, i bought a complete set when i found the damage to the exisiting leads.

i spoke with the service manager and the mechanic this morning, they both seem convinced it is either the coil or the dash. they are going to replace the coil and then sea trail the boat, as the problems only happen when it is under load and has been running for 20 - 30 minutes. if there is still a problem they will bypass the dash and retest it.

as i mentioned before i did have a replacement dash on order with the brokerage where i purchased the boat,who were a four winns main dealer, relations are not good in that department basically because i said i would have expected their mechanic to pick up on some of these faults when he carried out the service, or when i pointed out to him it was not running as well as it should be and he made some excuse about the petrol i was buying. anyway, do you know or know of a company or individual that can replace the dash in a four winns boat and can supply the necessary parts, firms down here don't show any interest in the work.

regards

martin

Martin

I do alll the work on my boat myself, no real experience with FW dealers apart from the one I bought the boat from; (Shepherds of Windermere). I found them nice people to deal with, they know what they are doing. If you are on the South Coast somewhere, it's a bit far for them to travel to fit it but they may be able to supply it!

A lot of people on here have bought parts from a FW dealer in the US that will apparently send them abroad; "Ryan" I think is the name of the contact. With the exchange rate the way it is, you may save some money. Maybe if you post asking about a recommended FW dealer, someone will chime in with the contact details

Removing the dash is easy; I took mine out of my previous 1999 Sundowner to replace a clip for the "wood" trim and to get at the underneath of the compass. The "wood " trim pulls off and the VDO unit was either attached to the trim or screwed in place.( that was 7 years ago, I can't remember all the details!). The replacement FW dash uses the original single multipin connector and has an electronic speedo utilising the original paddlewheel sender on the transom. It's "plug and play"; the only things that might need to be adusted are the selector on the tacho ( 4, 6 or 8 cylinder) and a similar one on the speedo, to match it up with the paddle wheel.

There is a fairly recent post about dash replacement.

Incidentally, have you changed the fuel filter/ water seperator?

Graham

hi graham

i will have a look around the forum, thanks for the advice.

the fuel filter was replaced when the new carburettor was fitted.

regards

martin