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Penetrating oils
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5444		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  230 Mike [ Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Penetrating oils
Just found this on another forum and thought there might be some here who would find it interesting (I did!).

Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break
out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective
test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque
required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

Penetrating oil ....... Average load
--------------------------------
None ................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ....... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix ... 53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone.

Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

For me, the surprises here are that WD-40 (i.e., KEROSENE) did as well as it did, and that there wasn't more of a difference between Kroil and LW.
Author:  07H200SS [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
I always use PB Blaster and seems to work really well.
Author:  230 Mike [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
I've always heard good things about PB as well. I know the testing world has standards for corrosion related materials testing but am not sure how scientific this particular test was.
Author:  97_245_sd [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
Hey Mike,
Was it just one bolt for each type of oil? I think you'd need about 4 or 5 of each, including none to get a statistically significant sample. I've been doing some work at my real work with fasteners and it is surprising how much torque variation there can be between "good, normal" fasteners.

Having said that, it does look like there are 3 different populations based on the torqe:
1. WD-40 and PB Blaster
2. Liquid Wrench and Kroil
3. Home Brew

Regardless of details, this is good info. I've got Blaster but I might get LW when that one runs out.
Author:  LouC [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
My experience has led me to feel that PB is better than LW but if you can let any of them soak in for days...re-apply...you can have good results...I re-built an older salt water trailer this way and was able to remove all of the old fasteners without cutting anything...it was a struggle though (made me see the value in air tools)...I did it all with a set of 1/2 drive Craftsman ratchets and sockets....and some of them took so much torque to remove that you could feel the heat in the socket when you were done! Anything I bolt on the trailer now gets coated in marine grease and sprayed with Corrosion X HD a couple of times per season....salt water is serious stuff....
Author:  230 Mike [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
The last time I ran out of LW was the first time I bought PB, based on reputation. These results have made me reconsider. However, that's what I was saying up above - I don't know how scientific the test was - I just quoted it from another forum - and agree that you can have 3 sets of fasteners in the same condition and have 3 very different results. Still, I have to believe they made at least some attempt to make it a legitimate test.

I'd probably use water before I'd use WD40.
Author:  millhaven_nice_guy [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
I too keep a stock of PB at home. i use it as a release aid for lightly rusted nuts and bolts.... The severe ones get a shot of Oxy-Acetylene! I also find that an air impact wrench will release almost all of the type of rusted bolts I run into.

As far as I am concerned none of this stuff works "instantly" You have to spray, let it soak and perhaps spray again (as LouC stated) in order to get things apart without breaking bolts.
Author:  230 Mike [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
I agree, if it's that bad I get a little help from my buddy Ingersoll Rand.
Author:  wkearney99 [ Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
A difference between 106 and 127 is not all that close, it's over 16%. As Twain said "Lies, damned lies and statistics."

I've had good success with Liquid Wrench. No so much with PB and never wanted to shell out the extra money for Kroil. WD-40 is crap, but the masses keep buying it.

I shudder to think about the chemical issues of combining ATF and acetone. I bet that shit would burn something nasty if it caught fire.

When dealing with stuck bolts I've found the best technique was apply the oil, tap the bolt several times, wait a few hours and then repeat. The tapping helps break the corrosion bond physically which then allows further penetration by the oil.

I got a friend's stuck brake disc off an axle using that technique. This after he'd spent a fair bit of time with all manner of pullers and a torch with no success. It took about two days, with about 4 hours between tap/reapply cycles during the day. The most difficult part of the process is applying the penetrating oil in a way that let it sit there. I rigged up a u-shaped collar of sorts that allowed the oil to pool up and soak into the full diameter of the corroded edges.

It's often very hard to get the oil to sit and then seep into the right places. Like into the downward descending angle from a stuck manifold bolt. In situations like that it's often faster to pull off the larger assembly (the whole cylinder head) in order to gain better access. While it seems like "more work" it's often a lot less time and aggravation.
Author:  230 Mike [ Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
wkearney99 wrote:
I shudder to think about the chemical issues of combining ATF and acetone. I bet that shit would burn something nasty if it caught fire.


I thought the same thing. I can see a guy pouring that all over everything, the fastener still not coming loose, and the guy saying, "Well, let's try the torch."

wkearney99 wrote:
The most difficult part of the process is applying the penetrating oil in a way that let it sit there.


+1. I've been known to empty an entire can of LW to get one 1/4" nut off. :evil:
Author:  Graham R [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Penetrating oils
It would have been interesting to se how a mixture of ATF and methylene chloride (dichloromethane) worked compared to the acetone/ATF mixture (non flammable, but very low viscosity). Not much good if there's paint about, it's an active ingredient in some paint strippers! ( very good for cleaning paint brushes, until it eventually dissolves the glue holding the bristles in place!)

Graham
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