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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:34 pm 
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GIDDY UP

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*popcorn*


BTW, your mom says you look like a lion...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:41 pm 
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230 Mike
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Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Looking forward to pics of this... I have a hard time buying the idea that a pressed-on pulley failure is "maintenance."

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2005 Four Winns 230/240
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 am 
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So, I got to my place at the lake at about midnight on Wednesday night/Thursday morning. Took me nearly 2 hours to get the seawater pump off and pull it out of the boat. I had been putting off my impeller change because every quick glance I took at the setup just left me more confused on how to get it out. Now that I knew it HAD to come out, I tore into it. Once I got the seawater pump housing out, I was amazed at how EASY it is once you do it once. Literally a 10 minute job if you know what you're doing.

I'm going to post up pics later on (left my camera at my lake house) once this is all done and do a thread on how to change the impeller on the 350MAG MPI. Another day, another time...you guys will enjoy the fruits of my 2+ hour job doing it. We'll call it sweat equity, I guess, for the iFourwinns shareholders. :D

Here's is what I know, and what I think I have on my hands, now that I have this part out and can look at it better:

1. The seawater pump housing (the $400 part) looks perfectly fine and so do all of the o-rings inside of it.
2. The pulley does not appear to have moved even a millimeter down the seawater pump driveshaft.
3. The impeller is still completely intact, no vanes missing, does not even look worn.
4. The driveshaft has simply pulled "out" of the impeller's hub (I guess that is what you'd call it?). It can be pushed/pulled in/out of the impeller hub.
5. One of the seals and the keeper ring/snap ring have come out of the pump housing and are still hanging on the pump driveshaft between the pulley and the pump housing.

Here is what I don't know:
WHY? From the schematics I've seen online, there isn't much to this entire assembly. There is the pump housing, the o-rings, the impeller, the pump driveshaft with the pulley pressed onto it, a couple of seals, and some type of keeper ring/snap ring. I don't know what holds the pump driveshaft in place inside of the impeller in the pump housing to prevent it from pulling out of the housing and moving toward the bow like it has done.

I've got it narrowed down to either a bad seal, failed keeper ring/snap ring, or some type of failure of either the impeller hub or the end of the driveshaft that goes inside the impeller and pump housing has somehow been damaged. I'm taking the whole thing over to the marine dealer I use to have them look at it and tell me what they think. I'll snap a few pics of the part as I have it right now and post them up later this afternoon with an update.

Best case scenario is a failed keeper/snap ring (About a $2 part)
Next-best is a failed seal (About $7)
Next-best is a bad pump drivehaft (About $100)
Worst case is a failed pump housing (About $400)

Keep your fingers crossed for me please!

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2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:30 pm 
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230 Mike
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Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Without pics it's hard to say, but from your excellent description it sounds like the impeller might "float" on the shaft, and that the whole thing is dependent on that snap ring, which may have simply wore down and failed. If that turns out to be the case, at least it would be cheap to keep a few on hand.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Well, there is nothing I hate more than being wrong and it looks like I am on this one. Overly optimistic is maybe the better way to put it. :D

Here's the whole story now.

1st, a schematic I drew of the seawater pump assembly:
Image



The seawater pump assembly:
Image
As the picture shows, the pulley is WAY too far away from the housing. It freely moved in and out by hand once I had it out of the boat. Sorry if this pic is upside down, but I've tried about 20 times now to correct it on photobucket and it won't work.




Image
A closer look, you can see the tolerance ring (item #6, which I was calling the "snap ring") and the gold seal (item #7) on the shaft near the pulley. They should be tucked inside the housing. Same for one of the two seawater pump driveshaft bearings (item #5-all one piece) that you should NOT be able to see.



Finally decided to see if I could pull the entire driveshaft out of the pump housing by hand. As you can see, I was successful:
Image
According to Paul at Blue Springs Marine in Blue Springs, MO, the driveshaft bearings are pressed into place on the driveshaft, and then the driveshaft is pressed inside of the housing so it was bad news that I could pull the entire thing out by hand. As you can see in the picture, the two bearings are supposed to be much closer together. The bearing furthest from the pulley should be closer to the bearing that is closer to the pulley. The bearing closest to the pulley is still in the correct place. If you look on the shaft, you can see the shiny marking where the bearing used to sit. You can't see it in the picture, but when we pressed on the bearing that moved with our fingers, corroded water came out of it. This bearing is supposed to stay dry, protected from the water by the Seal (item #4 in schematic). Obviously the seal failed.



Pump housing. Wishing I had more light when I took the pic, you can only barely see the marks where the bad bearing moved inside of the housing when I had my trouble on the water.
Image



Unfortunately, merely replacing the driveshaft is not an option for 2 reasons:
1. BSM/Mercruiser only sells the entire seawater pump assembly as it is depicted in the schematic above. The assembly includes all parts shown, and they are not sold individually.
2. Even if I bought the driveshaft individually from somewhere like Mercruiserparts.com, it seems from looking at the pump housing that there is a significant chance that the inside of the housing has got enough variance in it now that it would be out of tolerance and potentially I would have the problem repeat itself down the line. If that were to happen, I'd be looking at replacing the driveshaft yet again as well as the pump housing. So, I'd essentially be risking the cost of the new driveshaft v. just replacing it all at once.

So, I'm pretty much faced with a replacement seawater pump housing assembly. According to Paul at BSM, the pulley can be removed/replaced with rental tools from O'Reilly or Napa so that is good to know. Surprisingly, Mercruiserparts.com lists this part for $456.00 plus shipping but BSM could get it for me here locally for $276.00. Not quite sure how to explain that one, but Paul at BSM called Merc for me with me standing right there and verified with them that we were looking at the right thing, and that it was the entire assembly for that price.

Confusing, but $200 less is something I will not argue with. Add to that the fact that the assembly comes with a new impeller. I had bought from BSM a new impeller by itself for about $40 and an impeller kit that had an impeller and some o-rings and stuff in it for $80 when I was planning on changing the impeller originally. Paul at BSM said I could bring that stuff back, so that $120 would make the repair cost $150-not nearly as bad as I originally thought if the seawater pump housing needed replacing after all.

Off to look for $150.....

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2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Villiage Idiot

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:28 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: Kansas City
Thanks for the pics. Glad to see BSM took care of you and you'll be set. You did the right thing in not going for just the parts that are broke. I would think those bearings shrink fit on the shaft, and again in the housing. Could be a serious problem if you are using heat to get everything to expand/shrink to fit.

I'll have mine at Sportsman's next week to address a noise, and some routine maint, including the sea water pump.

Pet.... do you have the assy with the quick drain option, or the std set-up?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:19 pm 
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230 Mike
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:59 pm
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Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Good description, good pics, and good (relatively) outcome.

Still, I don't get having to buy a whole new assembly because of a failed seal. I mean, all seals eventually fail. Merc wants you to drop 5 bills every time that happens?

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2005 Four Winns 230/240
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:22 pm 
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I have the quick drain system with the air pump.

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2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Boat Tech, I'm curious as to whether you agree with the conclusion reached by myself and Paul at BSM? Any thoughts?

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2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:26 pm 
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Cleared up the confusion on the pricing: The entire seawater pump kit is $400+. Just the pump housing is $279.00 even on mercruiserparts.com.

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2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Villiage Idiot

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:28 pm
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Location: Kansas City
I got the same pump as you then. When my impeller failed last summer, Niether BSM or Sportsman's had the part.... The only place in town to have it was actually South West Marine.... figure the odds! I exchanged the "wrong" impeller BSM gave me for a correct one that I am keeping as on-hand spare.

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Walt B
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Black '07 H210SS
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Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:04 am 
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Dolphin

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:18 pm
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Location: Canada
My sea water pump just sh!t the bed as well, inner bearing let go and pulley walked out about an inch, no warranty with extended policy, my dealer had 6 of these on the bench it's a problem beginning to arise and apparently mercruiser has an updated pump for this, I got hosed on the labour to the tune of $800.00 while on holidays, p!$$ed

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:38 am 
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230 Mike
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Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Wow, a 2nd one in a short time. I guess if we could cross a Merc seawater pump with a new Volvo trim pump, we'd have... the U.S. federal government.

Sorry to hear this. Yet, there's something strangely comforting when you know you aren't alone.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:36 am 
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Guppy

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:21 am
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I also experanced the same raw water pump problem, last month, however my pump was changed under warranty. SeaCore engines have a 5 year warranty.

The first sign the pump was going bad was a squeak when the engine was first started, after about 5 minutes the noise went away. However, the pump shaft did pull out at idle and the belt did come off.

There is a trend with this problem, my pump had the air drain valve.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Sorry to hear it guys, but at least we are getting some info out to the other people on here with the same make/model to keep an eye out for it.

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2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
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