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My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
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Author:  barthel [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
I posted this previously but I got wrapped around the axle with some of the responses I got, so I thought I'd make the questions more direct and simpler. Here are my stats as of now;

1) Performance issue you are trying to correct.
Boat is slow climbing out of the hole (4 to 5 seconds) and seems to lose plane easily (below 2200rpm's)
I know I run heavy (4 adults, a kid or 2, 50qt cooler)

2) Current prop manufacturer, model, aluminum or stainless as a minimum.
Volvo Penta QL Aluminum 3 blade

3) Current prop diameter and pitch (required).
14.25X21

4) Wide open throttle RPM and speed with an average load (very helpful)
4000-4200 with an "average" load
Factory tach is off, I'm getting close to factory top speed (I get 47 mph on GPS, factory was 52mph) with a downed prop (factory was a 23p, it has a 21p)

5) Engine/drive make, model, year, and HP
VP 4.3GLPEFS, VP SX Outdrive, 2000 model year/190HP, 1.66:1 gear ratio

6) Boat make model, year, length and weight
Four Winns Horizon 180LE, 2001, 18ft, 2500#

I have pretty much decided to run a stainless steel prop (Thanks to Ric and Walt). Would a 14.25 X 21p 3 blade SS prop be my best option or do I have to reconsider pitch when going from Aluminum to SS?

My second choice would be a SS 4 blade, 14.25 X 19p.

I have no handling issues, the boat performs excellent, I would just like to get it on plane a bit faster and hold plane at a bit slower of a speed.

Thoughts, opinions?

BTW, thanks to everyone who answered my previous thread, it gave me a lot to think about
Author:  ric [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
Owning an H180 myself I can tell you this, the more weight you add the higher your minimum plane speed is. It's a small boat with not much surface area that is already quite heavy for it's size. The slowest I could ever get it to stay on plane was right around 15mph no matter what prop I stuck on it, and it's lost in a tight corner. That is dead slow and the hull design is not made for slow cruising, it's designed to be it's best right around 30-35mph. 4-5 people in my H180 and the minimum plane speed jumped up to around 20mph.

Even my 3.0 could jump me on plane with 2 people in the boat in around 3-4 seconds. Up til about 30mph it was actually faster then my buddies 351w ski natique. Zero bow rise. Trim down and the instant you gave it the goose it was nose down and accelerating. Once you get plane start trimming up and it just kept going til redline.

That 4.3GL with 60 more hp then my 3.0 should be a rocket ship one prop lower then stock. There's nothing slow about a H180 with a 4.3, it's like a little hot rod sports car.

That being said 4 adults, 2 kids, and a 50qt cooler is overloading an H180. The best you can do is try and balance it. Two adults in the bow, two in the middle, kids in the back. If you 4 are in the back and the kids are in the bow, that boat is going to struggle to get up. It has to lift not only the boat, but another 3-500lb's of extra weight. You can throw props at it and maybe smart tabs to help but simply put... the boat is too small to handle that kind of weight. You need more surface area (bigger boat).

EDIT: also.. how in the HECK do you no go bat crap crazy with that many people all crammed in there? 4 people was my absolute MAXIMUM. With the zero space of an H180 99% of the time it's just me and the GF. Maybe a 3rd friend. Anything more then 4 on that boat and you look like a clown car with zero personal space. The H180 is designed ergonomically to hold 4 people max, weight wise and space wise. For 6 people you need to step into at minimum an H220 with a 4.3GXi or V8.
Author:  rpengr [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
4000-4200 is too low for WOT, indicating you still have too much pitch. I think you will do well with the 14.25 x 19p 3 blade SST, or perhaps same with a 14.5 diameter. SST is worth the price for extra performance.

The best advise would be to find a prop shop that will let you try out a couple used props before shelling out $400-500 on a new SST prop. Some prop shops will even let you bring back a brand new prop for exchange provided you didn't scratch it up. In West Palm Beach, FL, we have Bobby Soles Propellers who do an excellent job.

I agree that the prop has little or nothing to do with the minimum speed that you can maintain a plane. Hull & weight, and weight distribution only. And of course make sure you are trimmed all the way down to get on a plane or stay on a plane at slow speed. Don't trim up until above about 25mph
Author:  BartsPlace [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
Going straight to the (newly posted) question: I have never needed to change pitch just to change material. If you have a great performing AL prop, you've pretty much found the right geometry period. The switch to SS at that point should not negatively affect performance - usually quite the opposite is true.

Currently your WOT is too low. Are there other variables that might be coming into play? Are you at sea level? Is the engine performing optimally? Again, as ric said, it may just be the extra weight of people and gear.

If you've checked all this and if that is your "normal" I would recommend dropping pitch. As I've said before, and as rpengr just mentioned, find a good prop shop that will join you in your quest for prop nirvana. Even if they don't have the best "internet-quality" pricing, time is money (for you and them). You'll come out ahead in the long run.
Author:  Walt [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
Prop Slip Calc

midwestpropeller

'nuff said.
Author:  ric [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
Walt wrote:
Prop Slip Calc

midwestpropeller

'nuff said.



My Solas aluminum prop slipped 17% :shock:
Author:  barthel [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
EDIT: also.. how in the HECK do you no go bat crap crazy with that many people all crammed in there? 4 people was my absolute MAXIMUM. With the zero space of an H180 99% of the time it's just me and the GF. Maybe a 3rd friend. Anything more then 4 on that boat and you look like a clown car with zero personal space. The H180 is designed ergonomically to hold 4 people max, weight wise and space wise. For 6 people you need to step into at minimum an H220 with a 4.3GXi or V8.[/quote]

It's actually not hard, the space seems to be more than enough. Although I had a Stingray 180 prior to this one, we would put the same amount of people in the Stingray and we were packed like sardines. The H180 is almost a foot wider than the Stingray, that made all the difference. :mrgreen:

I think I found my prop, I'm currently looking at the Turbo 1 14.25 X 21p 3blade, or possibly the Stiletto Advantage II in the same configuration. I realize it's never going to be a rocket out of the hole with that kind of load, but anything I can do to make it better will be fine. My wife notices the hole shot, and she never notices anything. :P

And, to all those telling me my WOT RPM's are too low, you're right. I suspect the tach is off as I can achive close to factory spec speed (which was 52 mph @ 4400-4600 PRM) with a prop that's one pitch lower than factory (21p vs. 23p for factory). At WOT I can hit 47mph, but the tach only shows 4100-4200 RPM's, yet it sounds like it running a bit higher. Indicated RPM's are not my issue at the moment, the tach will be fixed/replaced in the near future.
Author:  barthel [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
BartsPlace wrote:
Going straight to the (newly posted) question: I have never needed to change pitch just to change material. If you have a great performing AL prop, you've pretty much found the right geometry period. The switch to SS at that point should not negatively affect performance - usually quite the opposite is true.

Currently your WOT is too low. Are there other variables that might be coming into play? Are you at sea level? Is the engine performing optimally? Again, as ric said, it may just be the extra weight of people and gear.

If you've checked all this and if that is your "normal" I would recommend dropping pitch. As I've said before, and as rpengr just mentioned, find a good prop shop that will join you in your quest for prop nirvana. Even if they don't have the best "internet-quality" pricing, time is money (for you and them). You'll come out ahead in the long run.


I've been looking for a shop to let me "test" a few, but they seem to be few and far between here in SoCal. I've called 4 or 5 and most have given me the "buy what you want and it's yours" attitude. I was just more worried about whether I would need to change pitch going from aluminum to SS.
Author:  barthel [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
Well, think I found my prop.

Apollo XHS 14.5 X21p 3 blade SS.

I'll be ordering it tomorrow and will obviously report back to everyone how it runs, I'll be doing a river run in August. :mrgreen:

Thanks everyone for your input and opinions. I'm still figuring out certain aspects of boat ownership and props is an area I don't feel comfortable with yet.

Thanks Again!!!!!
Author:  ric [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
As a former H180 owner I honestly I think you're asking for too much out of that little thing. A prop will help, but you're not going to notice much at all. Too much weight for that hull size. I've had your kind of weight in my boat, it virtually turns it into a tug boat trying to sink to china.
Author:  Kvou812 [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
My previous boat was similar to yours... 97' Larson LXI 186 with 4.3 V6/SX drive. The boat came with a 14x19 aluminum prop and I went to a SS 14x19 and it worked very well for me. This is with me pulling tubes all the time with several people on board.
Author:  barthel [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
Kvou, that's exactly what I wanted to hear! :mrgreen:

I know exactly what you mean ric, and I don't expect this to cure all my ills. At this point I think it's 1 piece of the puzzle.
Author:  neutron [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
what ric said, says it all!
Author:  Mark T [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
barthel wrote:
Well, think I found my prop.

Apollo XHS 14.5 X21p 3 blade SS.

I'll be ordering it tomorrow and will obviously report back to everyone how it runs, I'll be doing a river run in August. :mrgreen:

Thanks everyone for your input and opinions. I'm still figuring out certain aspects of boat ownership and props is an area I don't feel comfortable with yet.

Thanks Again!!!!!



Do yourself a favor and order a spare hub kit. I've trashed on hub and getting ready to order another backup one. Hub took the damage like it was supposed to and the prop was fine.
Author:  barthel [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My Last Prop Question, I Promise (at least for now)
Great minds must think alike Mark, I ordered 2 hubs with the prop. :D
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