www.iFourWinns.com

I have 94 Four Winns Horizon 180 that I just got, and the trailer brakes don't work. I am towing the boat with a 2005 Ford Expedition 4x4. And we are getting read to move from North Carolina to Texas. Right now I need all the extra cash I can come up with. This is whats on the trailer now that doesn't work. http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm ... goryID=150
I want to replace it with http://tractorsupply.com/detail.asp?pcI ... ctID=28310
Also with that I don't know what kind of condition of the Drums or the lines that are on the trailer either.

Do you all think I will have a problem towing the boat 1200 miles with out trailer brakes or should I just bite the bullet and get them fixed before I leave?

Thanks in advance for you advice.

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Troy
2008 Centurion Avalanche
1994 Four Winns Horizon 180 SE 5.0L OMC Cobra (Sold)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Edition (http://www.nhtoc.com) 378 hp & 465 tq at rear wheels
2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/Nav

I don't think you'd have any trouble with the Expy. Now, having said that - if I were you I'd get them fixed first. What I don't get is, unless I misunderstood your links, you plan to replace a hydraulic surge brake actuator with a non-brake actuator??

Do you know why your brakes don't work? Assuming they're drum brakes, I'd be willing to bet the problem isn't even in the actuator, but rusted/frozen parts in the drums.

If it were me I'd retrofit the whole thing with disk brakes, a new actuator, lines, etc. It wouldn't be as expensive as you might think if you can do it yourself.

Short of that, unless you are certain the problem is in the actuator, I'd pull the drums, replace the wheel cylinders, springs, etc., clean up the brake surfaces in the drums if they're all rusty & pitted, and completely flush & bleed the brake lines with new fluid. If you *are* certain that the problem is in the actuator, you should replace it with a similar actuator designed to operate your brakes.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

[quote="230 Mike"]I don't think you'd have any trouble with the Expy. Now, having said that - if I were you I'd get them fixed first. What I don't get is, unless I misunderstood your links, you plan to replace a hydraulic surge brake actuator with a non-brake actuator??

Yes that was my idea to save some money for the time being. The hydraulic surge actuator that is on the trailer now doesn't pump any fluid though it. the guy who had the boat before me said the brakes stoped working one day. Well I found that the actuator was out of fluid, so I put some fluid in it but the brakes still didn't work. and Then I found a broke brake line. And pumping the actuator didn't get any fluid out of the line. So I think the line broke, the actuator pumped the fluid out and then the actuator seals (or whatever iis nside of it) just rotted out and stopped working.

Do you know why your brakes don't work? Assuming they're drum brakes, I'd be willing to bet the problem isn't even in the actuator, but rusted/frozen parts in the drums.

Yea the brakes on the trailer are drum and I don't know the condition of them right now. I didn't have time to look at them before I left on my business trip. And I won't have too much time to check them out before I need to move.


If it were me I'd retrofit the whole thing with disk brakes, a new actuator, lines, etc. It wouldn't be as expensive as you might think if you can do it yourself.

I was looking at that but was wandering how much it would probably run. With out knowing exactly what I would need I couldn't do any price researching

Short of that, unless you are certain the problem is in the actuator, I'd pull the drums, replace the wheel cylinders, springs, etc., clean up the brake surfaces in the drums if they're all rusty & pitted, and completely flush & bleed the brake lines with new fluid. If you *are* certain that the problem is in the actuator, you should replace it with a similar actuator designed to operate your brakes

The new actuator like the one that is on the trailer now is about $130 where as the normal hitch is like $30. But I would hate to get the new actuator and then find out that I need to replace the drums also. Then I would be mad because I just didn't go ahead and upgrade the whole system to disc like you said. Damed if I do and damed if I don't. LOL

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Troy
2008 Centurion Avalanche
1994 Four Winns Horizon 180 SE 5.0L OMC Cobra (Sold)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Edition (http://www.nhtoc.com) 378 hp & 465 tq at rear wheels
2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/Nav

Maybe try to test the actuator by temporarily patching the brake line, and adding more fluid? I'd think the right size hose and a few worm clamps would allow you to diagnose more than you've been able to so far. Could be the only problem was the ruptured break line.

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2007 Horizon 200
4.3L GXi/ SX 225 HP

Well I filled up the actuator and pulled the boat to the lake (about 60 mile round trip) and the brakes didn't work and that is when I found the broken brake line and no fluid came out of it. So I tried pumping the actuator and watching the broken line and still nothing out of the broken line. So I took the line off the actuator and pumped it and still no fluid out of the actuator.
I really don't know how they are suppose to work but I think if it was pumped I should at least get some fluid movement.

If I am wrong in my thinking on how the actuator should work please let me know.

Thanks for the input!

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Troy
2008 Centurion Avalanche
1994 Four Winns Horizon 180 SE 5.0L OMC Cobra (Sold)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Edition (http://www.nhtoc.com) 378 hp & 465 tq at rear wheels
2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/Nav

I'd be willing to bet you have a couple of different issues going on. If the brake line is "broken" as in there's a point where it's exposed to outside air, there's a good chance rust has developed inside the line. If so the only good fix is to replace the line and without seeing it I'd have to recommend replacing the entire line (something else that would get done anyway if you were to switch to disks). At the same time, if the trailer was dunked a few times and then put away and not used for a long time without any maintenance on the drums, I betcha they're all corroded up also. Ironically, I would think the actuator is the least likely source of trouble of all the brake components. But, it's always possible.

BTW, the former owner's story "smells" to me. I don't know how the brakes would just stop working suddenly and then have a broken brake line. But of course that's neither here nor there now.

If at some point you do decide to switch to disks, you *will* have to replace the actuator. The nice thing about all that (beyond having working brakes again) is knowing that all the functional parts of your trailer are new and working as well as the rest of your boat.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Yea the old owners story did "smell" but the boat was in too good of condition to worry about the trailer brakes. I think the line broke he didn't feel like fixing it considering he never used the boat and didn't feel like he needed the brakes so he left it broke. Now I want to get the brakes fixed (I have an issue with stuff being correct) but really can't afford it right now.

Can you point me in the right direction to getting the parts for a Disc brake conversion? I can do the work myself just need help getting the parts.

For instance, would this be good? http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm ... goryID=302

Thanks for helping.

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Troy
2008 Centurion Avalanche
1994 Four Winns Horizon 180 SE 5.0L OMC Cobra (Sold)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Edition (http://www.nhtoc.com) 378 hp & 465 tq at rear wheels
2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/Nav

Yep, that's exactly along the lines of what I'd go with. Before making an actual purchase you'll probably need to verify the dimensions of your spindles, caliper bracket mounting hole center dimensions, etc. Certainly you'd want to talk with someone there who is knowledgeable and go over all the parts involved to make sure the kit is going to work with your trailer, and to select the right actuator to go with it. The job will also involve switching from a 4-wire harness to a 5-wire. If you have the factory tow package on your Expy, you'll just need to buy a 5-flat to 7-round adapter, rather than the 4-flat to 7-round that you're using now. If you don't have the tow package, you'll need to tap into the backup light circuit on the Expy for the reverse lockout solenoid.

Tie Down Engineering has similar kits (12" e-coated vented disc/rotors, etc.), and are the current OEM supplier to Four Winns. Many knowledgeable boaters would prefer Kodiak; I've had no trouble with TDE and had outstanding service from their people. I don't think you'd go wrong either way.

In the meantime, since your long upcoming tow is with en Expy, I wouldn't think you'd have too much trouble as long as you leave plenty of braking room. But I'd never actually recommend someone tow without properly functioning brakes.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Thanks for the Info!!!

I just found someone close to my house that actually carries TDE. I can't find anyone that carries Kodiak close to home.
Besides the money issue I will not have a lot of time from the time I get home until the time I have to move. I am currently out of town and from the time I get home until the time I have to leave is like 2 weeks. If I can sell some of my other crap then I will have the money for the brakes then I need the time to put them on. Arrrrgggg. If it isn't one thing its another.

I guess I will have to see how the time and money works out. I hope I can get this done! I have some friends locally that know and work on boats, trailers, and auto's. So utilizing their help would be very nice.

Thanks again,

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Troy
2008 Centurion Avalanche
1994 Four Winns Horizon 180 SE 5.0L OMC Cobra (Sold)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Edition (http://www.nhtoc.com) 378 hp & 465 tq at rear wheels
2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/Nav

Has anyone dealt with http://www.easternmarine.com/ ? Just wandering if they are any good. I might order my stuff from them. I can get in about 2 days using UPS ground. They have the best prices that I have found for brakes.

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Troy
2008 Centurion Avalanche
1994 Four Winns Horizon 180 SE 5.0L OMC Cobra (Sold)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Edition (http://www.nhtoc.com) 378 hp & 465 tq at rear wheels
2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/Nav

I just tried them for the first time. Ordered a set of LED tail lights for the boat trailer. Ordering process was painless and received item as promised. They take PayPal for payment. I found their prices to be reasonable. The new trailer lights are great, better and brighter than the FW originals.

Rod

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2010 278 Vista
5.7 GXi DP

Past:
1999 225 Sundowner
5.7 GSi SX

Thanks for the info Guinnydog!

I think they are the ones I will purchase my brakes from. I still can't decide between TDE and Kodak. I'm going to do TDE surge actuator but I don't know which one for the brakes them selves. TDE is what FW uses now factory but a lot of people are saying to go Kodiak. I guess I'll have to wait and see what I feel like when I get the chance to order the brakes.

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Troy
2008 Centurion Avalanche
1994 Four Winns Horizon 180 SE 5.0L OMC Cobra (Sold)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson Edition (http://www.nhtoc.com) 378 hp & 465 tq at rear wheels
2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/Nav