www.iFourWinns.com

It's funny how when someone else has an issue, we can think clearly and methodically about how to address it, but when it happens to us, the answers seem less obvious.

I took the boat to the lake last week, a tow of several hundred miles. The brakes worked perfectly nearly all the way down, however in the last several miles I had the sense that the trailer just wasn't rolling as freely as it normally does, as though the brakes maybe weren't releasing completely or like someone had added 800 more pounds to the boat. I checked the hub temps; none of them were higher than normal and the difference between them was as expected. No clue there. We launched the boat and parked the trailer for the week. On Sunday, we hitched up, got the boat out of the water, and headed toward storage. The brakes seemed to be completely non-functional - not good in the Ozark mountains. And, taking off from a stop, the coupler was obviously traveling farther than normal - not clunking, but almost. And yet - when I got to storage and had to go from forward to reverse several times to maneuver, back into the unit, etc., the brakes seemed to nearly lock up at times.

There were no puddles under the trailer where it was parked and I didn't notice any fluid on the wheels or trailer. But I also didn't have time on this trip to open the MC to see what the fluid level was. Obviously, low fluid would explain the coupler travel and lack of braking action, but what about the apparent dragging and locking?

Anything jumping out here?

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

No insult intended, but what was your tire pressure? Low tires can cause the drag you described.


I'm no trailer brake expert as I tow a very short distance to my ramp, but with no visible fluid leakage or loud brake noise, maybe you have air in the brake lines/system?

_________________

1996 205 Sundowner DLX
5.0FL Volvo SX Cobra
Tow Veh: 2012 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X

No insult taken. They were full @ 65psi, I check them before every tow. If something caused them to drop during the trip, it wasn't enough to be visibly obvious.

Air in the lines - interesting idea. I did flush & bleed them last year, but it's always possible something loosened up. I'm not sure how that could cause the locking up though.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I am also no trailer expert, but unfortunately I did get the opportunity to learn a great deal about my trailer brakes in the past year. Not sure about the brake drag you were experiencing, but regarding the loss of brakes combined with the lock-up while reversing, it almost sounds like the reverse lockout solenoid might be acting up. If it was stuck in the open position, you would have little braking from the trailer when slowing. That would not explain the trouble when backing, however. That makes me wonder if the valve is stuck somewhere between open and closed. That would cause the brakes to engage when backing, but not enough to lock them up while at the same time limiting your trailer braking while slowing. I would double check the wiring harness connection, maybe even unplug and re-plug it in. Then put the truck in and out of reverse a couple of times to try to get that valve to open and close properly.

_________________
Seth




2005 210 Horizon
5.0L GXi
"Don't Think Twice"

I thought about the solenoid too, and you might be on to something. I've already replaced it once (the original failed before the end of the 1st season). I didn't give that much credibility since it makes sense for one of the problems but not both - but I probably need to play around with that. I think I'll order a replacement just to take with me on the next trip in case it comes to that. The good news there is, when I replaced it the 1st time I re-positioned it so that it can be changed without taking the coupler clear out of the tongue. I've got a thread here somewhere with pics.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Are they drum brakes?
You could likely have a sticky/ stuck wheel cyclinder (hydraulic cylinder that opens the brake shoes to the hub).
Quite common on boat trailers with drum brakes...

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

Sorry, disks. Could be a stuck caliper, but I would expect that to show up in higher hub temps.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Mike,
Mine was doing similar about 2 weeks ago (sometimes non-functional, other times locking in reverse). I traced it to my wiring adapter. Cleaned up the connections, and was good to go!

When in reverse, the solenoid should be energized and open, allowing fluid to "bypass" the drums or discs; and de-energized shut. Thus when trying to actuate the brakes by hand with a lever, the coupler should move a good distance when the 5th post is energized +12V, and be very hard to move when not energized. Could also be stuff in your valve, causing it to not operate fully shut, as mine will truly lock up in reverse if the lock-out is not functioning properly.

I hope that helps.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

Thanks Walt. Yeah, I've got the theory down (having gone through one replacement already), but having trouble seeing how the solenoid - on it's own - could explain everything that's happening in this case. Unless, it's stuck partially open (when it locks it doesn't completely lock and when it drags it doesn't drag enough to raise hub temps). I guess stranger things have happened. As far as connections go, I keep them all clean with a dab of dielectric grease on all of them. I'll check them all though, it sure can't hurt. Next trip to the lake I'll have a new solenoid just in case, and a DVM, as well as brake fluid, bleeding tools, etc.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I think the DG was causing the issues. Right now my connections are "bare" and working great, whereas before (while using NoOx) I was getting intermittent connection issues at the harness/adapter.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

That's interesting. I suppose over time a buildup of crud could cause these kinds of issues. I'll consider that as I go through troubleshooting too.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Just in case it helps anyone else, here are some pics of when I modified my solenoid setup.

The original configuration. This is the actuator freshly disconnected and pulled out of the tongue.



Notice, there isn't a lot of room to work, even with the actuator pulled out. In fact to do this I had to hacksaw through the nipple between the solenoid and MC. The only other way to get the solenoid off would be to take off the MC cover, which would require a new (probably hard to find) gasket.



The new setup. Not only is it easier to replace a failed solenoid, but the solenoid is now positioned just above the access/drain hole in the bottom of the tongue - so replacing it can be done relatively easily.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Outstanding modification. I had to replace my master cylinder and to do so, I had to switch the solenoid over. I ended up removing the cover on the new MC so that I could attach the solenoid. It was not big deal. It sealed up just fine, but your mod looks pretty slick! Next time, I'm doing that!

_________________
Seth




2005 210 Horizon
5.0L GXi
"Don't Think Twice"