Surge Brakes Not Working??

rapa123 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 69

Hi, I have a 2006 244 Funship in which I purchased new. I'm not sure if the surge brakes are actually working or not (tandem axle). The actuator clunks pretty good upon stopping/taking off. I have checked the brake fluid in which it has been low from time to time in which I topped it off. This may suggest that there's air in the lines. I haven't seen any leaks, but I plan on inspecting everything when I take it out of storage. I feel that the first thing I need to do is bleed the brake lines and check for leaks. Also, I am able to back up the trailer without locking out the actuator with no drag. After reading many posts here, it appears that if I disconnect the solenoid I shouldn't be able to back up. I will also give this a test to see what happens. Currently the boat and trailer is stored in my pole barn raised on jack stands, as I do every winter. I normally do everything myself and feel that I can bleed the lines with a little direction. I'm searching this out now so I can be prepared on what to do and look for. If you have any suggestions and/or how to's it would be sincerely appreciated. Thank you, Ray

ric · **Posted:** Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:57 am

rapa123 wrote:

Hi, I have a 2006 244 Funship in which I purchased new. I'm not sure if the surge brakes are actually working or not (tandem axle). The actuator clunks pretty good upon stopping/taking off. I have checked the brake fluid in which it has been low from time to time in which I topped it off. This may suggest that there's air in the lines. I haven't seen any leaks, but I plan on inspecting everything when I take it out of storage. I feel that the first thing I need to do is bleed the brake lines and check for leaks. Also, I am able to back up the trailer without locking out the actuator with no drag. After reading many posts here, it appears that if I disconnect the solenoid I shouldn't be able to back up. I will also give this a test to see what happens. Currently the boat and trailer is stored in my pole barn raised on jack stands, as I do every winter. I normally do everything myself and feel that I can bleed the lines with a little direction. I'm searching this out now so I can be prepared on what to do and look for. If you have any suggestions and/or how to's it would be sincerely appreciated. Thank you, Ray

Surge brakes are garbage with a capital G. If it's clunking when you hit the brakes it's either got air in it, or the actuator went bad and it's not doing anything letting fluid right by. Probably went bad and you need to replace it, not cheap. Do yourself a favor and convert the trailer over to electric brakes and never worry about it again.

rapa123 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 69

Electric brakes would certainly be awesome...... This is something I have never looked into. Please give me some suggestions of where to start. Thanks, Ray

ric · **Posted:** Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:27 am

rapa123 wrote:

Electric brakes would certainly be awesome...... This is something I have never looked into. Please give me some suggestions of where to start. Thanks, Ray

Is your current brake setup disk or drum? If drum you can reuse the drums and it's only around $80 per axle for the brake setup. Electric brakes are cheap and work freaking good.

http://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Brakes.aspx

rapa123 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 69

Disc brakes....... Thanks, ray

Walt · **Posted:** Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:12 am

Rapa...
Surge brakes are fine.
My brakes clunk some when starting/stopping. I make sure to stab the brakes a few times when I start going to free stuff up until I feel the brakes engage/disengage. Does your wiring harness have the 5th lead for the brake reverse lock-out? If so, that would explain why you can back up OK. Do the basics first as you suggested. Flush with new fluid and bleed the brakes. You can use a crow-bar or large screw driver to push on your surge actuator. Also check your calipers/springs/etc if drums. Make sure everything is free to move. On my last boat the same happened as you described. In my case it was most cost effective to replace the whole drum/brake assembly. It was a nice bolt-on set available at about any trailer supply store.

Good luck

rapa123 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 69

Hi, I believe that my wiring harness has a 5th lead for the brake reverse lock-out, but not sure. Can't check right now, but will as soon as I take it out of storage. How/what would I look for to be sure? Thanks for your help and info. Ray

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:41 pm

Surge brakes work well when they are maintained, within their limitations. The only situation where they do not work that well are on very steep hills like the mountain passes that they have out west. There you would be better off with electric over hydraulic but thats a lot more expensive and complex, more to go wrong.
If you wanted to change to electric you'd have to do more work, that fixing what you have. You have a leak somewhere and need to find it, fix it and then bleed the brakes. Basic auto repair 101.
I have them on my trailer and if I can keep them working in salt water then anyone can. I put a set of surge drums on it in 2004 and since then have changed the wheel cylinders 2x and learned how to make them more corrosion resistant.
If you wanted to go to electric brakes you'd have to either:
go with electric over hydraulic and keep your disc brakes or
change everything, add electric drums and backing plates and a stationary coupler, and then add a 7 pin harness for the trailer and a controller for the tow vehicle.
I vote for finding and fixing the leak. Look carefully at the actuator, all the flex lines and wherever a line joins another. Also look at the lines where they go into the calipers.

ric · **Posted:** Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:16 pm

Installing electric brakes is as easy as it gets. Buy 2 or 4 drum units, wire the ONE wire that controls them, change out trailer harness socket to add in the brake wire to the existing harness, and if you're truck doesn't have a brake controller they're like $60 bucks now. A whole 4 axle elec brake setup with controller costs under $300 installed by you in an hour.

rapa123 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am **Posts:** 69

Very interesting points..... The first thing I plan on doing is inspecting my entire brake system. There are no apparent leaks, but there may be a small one somewhere allowing some loss of fluid introducing air into the system. Surge and electric has it's own faults, but what I have right now isn't doing the trick. Whatever works along with the most cost effective way is what I'm going to head for. Thanks, Ray

ric · **Posted:** Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:29 am

rapa123 wrote:

Very interesting points..... The first thing I plan on doing is inspecting my entire brake system. There are no apparent leaks, but there may be a small one somewhere allowing some loss of fluid introducing air into the system. Surge and electric has it's own faults, but what I have right now isn't doing the trick. Whatever works along with the most cost effective way is what I'm going to head for. Thanks, Ray

It was a cost thing for me. My trailer needs a new "everything". Receiver, lines, disks, calipers, pads. Priced out on etrailer.com electric drum brakes on all 4 wheels, new hubs with drums, brake controller is $450 shipped. A hyd disk setup is $700. I tow my boat maybe 10 times a year, electric brakes don't "go bad" sitting, but the seals on a hyd brake setup do, rotors rust to the pads, fluid gets water in it, whole bunch of mess happens. No thanks!!

Bliss36 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:50 am

Quote:

I tow my boat maybe 10 times a year, electric brakes don't "go bad" sitting, but the seals on a hyd brake setup do, rotors rust to the pads, fluid gets water in it, whole bunch of mess happens.

I love my electric brakes but they have problems also as I just had to remove all 4 drums and repair 4 seized star wheel adjusters. Also my "break away battery" had failed so replaced that too...which is one more to add to your estimate because I believe some states require it on electric brake systems.
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Breakaway-Kit/Hopkins/20099.html

I agree with others that fixing your current system will end up being cheaper and easier than a conversion. If you still want electric it might be easier to upgrade to electric over hydraulic(which most consider the best) since you already have disc brakes and hydraulic lines in place. Good luck and keep us posted what you find

jacknbella · **Posted:** Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:02 am

I too, am sick and tired of always worrying about my surge brakes (with oil bath hubs) failing without any notice so I'm seriously thinking about switching to e-brakes too. Would anyone be willing to fully document the process of doing this activity so I can gauge whether or not I'm mechnically inclinded enough to do it myself before I spend big $$$ and have my dealer do it?

My current setup:
2008 FW tandem trailer
Hyrdaulic Surge Disc Brakes - Oil Bath
2011 Ford F150 (does not have an e-brake controller)

What is the material cost for switching to e-brakes? Which online retailer would have the best prices and best products?

Much appreciated!!! Sorry to hijack the original thread but maybe he wants to know all this too?

Thanks guys
Tony

LouC · **Posted:** Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:29 am

You all should keep in mind that standard electric drum brakes are NOT designed for marine use. That's why you will have problems with corrosion. Galvanized drums and stainless discs are. I feel like in this thread and the other one about winterizing, I am constantly having to correct mis-information and bad advise spread all over the net.
Go to:
www.championtrailers.com

READ and LEARN...
They have good tech articles....

NiagaraChillin · **Posted:** Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:34 pm

LouC wrote:

I feel like in this thread and the other one about winterizing, I am constantly having to correct mis-information and bad advise spread all over the net.

That's not necessarily a bad thing Lou. Thats the great thing about this forum, learning new and/or correct ways of doing things. I know personally, I have learned a great deal from your posts and comments. Keep up the good work!

www.iFourWinns.com

Surge Brakes Not Working??

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