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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:48 am 
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Sting Ray

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 69
Hi, I don't believe my surge brakes are working properly (or at all). My 2006 FourWinns dual axle trailer came with the Tie Down Engineering surge brake actuator model 125. I don't have any apparent leaks, but I'm going to start by removing all four wheels for inspection and then follow up by bleeding the system. The actuator clunks quite easily upon taking off and stopping. I'd like to add, the brake fluid reservoir is full. I do have the manual for this actuator, but would like to know if anyone has had experience bleeding their disc brakes with this particular actuator/trailer? In addition, if you know of any type of tests I could perform to see if the brakes are indeed working along with any other procedures and/or tips I would sincerely appreciate it. Thanks, Ray

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Location: Freeland, MI
rapa123 wrote:
Hi, I don't believe my surge brakes are working properly (or at all). My 2006 FourWinns dual axle trailer came with the Tie Down Engineering surge brake actuator model 125. I don't have any apparent leaks, but I'm going to start by removing all four wheels for inspection and then follow up by bleeding the system. The actuator clunks quite easily upon taking off and stopping. I'd like to add, the brake fluid reservoir is full. I do have the manual for this actuator, but would like to know if anyone has had experience bleeding their disc brakes with this particular actuator/trailer? In addition, if you know of any type of tests I could perform to see if the brakes are indeed working along with any other procedures and/or tips I would sincerely appreciate it. Thanks, Ray


the best test you can do is to unhook the wire from the reverse blocking solenoid valve and try backing up. if they are working you wont be able to move the trailer. If you can, you have an issue with the brakes.

As far as bleeding we have good luck inour shop using the one person vaccuum bleeder. Should work good on a trailer too. And the best part is you can do it yourself.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:09 pm 
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I have the same model 125 actuator, I've had to replace the master cylinder in it already as the dampener was shot and it would clunk on take off and braking, even though the reservoir was full. I couldn't even buy it directly from Tie down, I had to get it from Four Winns with the requisite markup, as Tiedown claimed that Four Winns modified it for their use.

If it goes again, I'm switching over to electric over hydraulic.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:18 pm 
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You stated that you have the manual, but here it is for future readers of this forum:
http://www.tiedown.com/pdf/b771.pdf

My actuator is a different model, but I would like to +1 the "vacuum bleeder". The last time I bleed my master cylinder, I borrowed a friends vacuum bleeder, and it was much easier than trying to pry/pump the master cylinder.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:39 pm 
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Sting Ray

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 69
Hi, Thanks for the replies and the manual link..... I'll begin with the unplugging then backing up test. It will be a few days, but I'll keep you posted. Thanks again, Ray :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:40 am 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:23 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Prairie Village, KS
I don't think backing up is going to tell you they are working properly. You could have just one axle working, which would likely be the front. Bleeding is not fun, but use the ball mount attached to actuator for leverage, pump and hold, then bleed by starting with rear axle, then move to the front and finish by re-bleeding the rear axle. You will obviously need a helper, but I just did this exact process and it worked quite successfully. My brakes were only partially working with one wheel also sticking.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:20 am 
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Copied & pasted from the manual for reference:
Quote:
Code:
Use only DOT-3 brake fluid in the Model 125 actuator. Use a pressure type brake bleeder to bleed brakes. (This type of brake bleeder is
available at your local automotive parts supply store.) Follow manufacturer’s directions. Or, manually bleed the brakes using a
heavy-duty flat blade screwdriver inserted in the hole provided on the top of the actuator near the front. Insert the screwdriver and use
a pumping action to activate the master cylinder in order to bleed the brakes. See page 8 for more details.
To bleed master cylinder and brakes, install bleeder hose on first wheel cylinder to be bled; if tandem axle trailer, bleed farthest axle
first, and the farthest brake on that axle first. Use a loose end of hose from the bleeder valve submerged in a clear container of
brake fluid to observe bubbling (hose must be submerged into clean brake fluid to keep air from traveling back into the brake cylinder).
Loosen the bleeder screw located in the wheel cylinder one turn; the system is now open to the atmosphere. The bleeding operation for
that brake is complete when bubbling stops. Be sure to tighten bleeder screw securely. Each wheel cylinder must be bled until all air
is out of the lines. Replenish the brake fluid during the bleeding process so the level does not fall below half full level in the master
cylinder reservoir. When bleeding and testing is completed, make sure master cylinder is filled to approximately 3/8” below the top of
the reservoir and filler cap is securely in place.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:46 am 
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Sting Ray

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 69
I have a power bleeder on the way...... Ray

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:22 am 
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Location: San Diego, CA
I bought a vacuum bleeder at Harbor Freight over the weekend to bleed my brakes after replacing the actuator - piece of cake! Never doing the screwdriver at the actuator gig again.....
This is what I bought:http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/brakes/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:47 pm 
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Sting Ray

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 69
Received the Motive power bleeder...... I pulled all four wheels off the trailer and still don't see any signs of a leak. The disc brakes are from Tie Down with the calipers having two bleeders each. Do I need to bleed off both bleeders? I have seen mixed comments around on the web about just bleeding the top one and/or both. Plan on diving into it tomorrow........ What's your thoughts? Thanks again to all of you for your help. Ray :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:00 pm 
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Since air bubbles rise I think you'd be fine with just doing the upper ones

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:28 am 
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Sting Ray

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 69
Getting ready to power bleed with the Motive bleeder. Upon reading the instructions http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.c...ons_ep_50.html
number 9 and 10 has me a little puzzled. If you could explain in better terms and/or give me your steps using the power bleeder I would sincerely appreciate it.
#9 stating; If fluid remains in the Power Bleeder tank when through: tip the tank away from fluid pick-up tube and open bleed valve closest to the master cylinder. Allow air to flow into fluid reservoir until fluid level falls just to the maximum fill level on your reservoir. Close the bleed valve and tighten to specified torque.
Question 1: "If fluid remains in the Power Bleeder tank when through tip the tank away from fluid pick-up tube and open bleed valve closest to the master cylinder" Correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean the first caliper I started with? If the bleeder tank is still under pressure wouldn't this push fluid through the bleeder as well as introducing air into the line?
Question 2: "Allow air to flow into fluid reservoir until fluid level falls just to the maximum fill level on your reservoir. Impossible, can't see through the actuator. Now what?
Question 3: "Close the bleed valve and tighten to specified torque." Cant find any torque specs anywhere. Do you guys torque these or just snug them up?

#10 stating. "When complete, release pressure by slowly loosening pump cap. Remove the cap from fluid reservoir, taking care to avoid spilling any fluid that remains in the tube."
All pressure will probably be gone by now......

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:05 pm 
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I use a simple one man brake bleeder made by Lisle and the Tie Down actuator I have allows me to pump it with a screwdriver. With drum brakes I never had problems bleeding them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Sting Ray

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 69
Just got done ignoring the complication of the directions. I had a lot of air in the lines and "did not" find any leaks in the entire system. The brakes have very little wear on them leading me to believe that the trailer wasn't bled in the first place from the factory. I held back the actuator to checked the brakes......wheels all locked up nicely by hand. The real test will be once I get on the road. I sincerely appreciate everyone's help. Thanks again, Ray :wink:

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