www.iFourWinns.com

Hi,

Just started my 1988 Liberator's 460's yesterday:
Hooked up the water muffs, and the starboard motor started, and water came out the exhaust as it should.

When I started the port side, it fired up, but no water out the exhaust after 30 seconds...so I shut it off.

This will be my first time replacing an impeller, but where is it...in the outdrive or on/near the motor...

I am looking for my manual now, but a quick search online has not given me a quick answer.

Any information and tips are appreciated.

Thanks, Scott.

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

Is this the correct answer?


The sea water pump is in the top of the outdrive. Takes all if 10 minutes to change and that's only if you cant find a wrench. Remove the three screws in the top cover and there's the pump. The circulating pump is unique to marine. The pump is cast iron. Automotive is aluminum and the gasket surface is different and will leak out the bottom , trust me , been there done that

I found this info at OffshoreOnly.com

Scott.

_________________
1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

Youtube has this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH6dNUXKJ6o

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

I assume that the King Cobra location is the same as the Cobra:
On the Cobra, the Raw Water Pump is under the plastic cover at the top/back of the outdrive. Three bolts to remove the plastic cover. 3 more bolts to remove the pump. Easiest Impeller Change Ever. Can be changed with the boat in the water if needed (trimmed all the way up).

Because that area is exposed to sea water, I always coated the bolt's threads with gasket sealer such as Aviation-Form-A-Gasket.

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

The main thing with this job is to make sure that the o-ring gasket fits in the groove in the impeller housing. The use of the gasket sealer really helps prevent the bolts from seizing up in salt water.
The impeller design along with the easier to replace bellows is a nice feature of the Cobra. Once you learn how to do the shift cable adjustment (with the 3 special tools it isn't hard really) these are still nice to own as long as you can still get parts....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks rpenger and Lou. I'm going to do this - thanks for your inputs.
I'll try and get the OEM impeller, too as was suggested in an earlier post.

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

Here's what I found - everything looks good to the untrained eye - the rubber on the impeller looks great no visible damage.
The shaft is not loose or does not appear broken - I can't spin it by hand. Seems like there is not any grease on the impeller or in the cage thing...
Can I try to re-grease it and try it again?

_________________
1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

That does all look good.

The impeller is not quite "as good as new" because you can see some curvature in the blades. They are straight when new. This is called "set" because the blades do not spring back to straight. However, your "set" is very slight, and I think you could use that impeller for another year.

Be careful not to use a grease that could damage rubber. Volvo impellers come with a little tube of glycerin to lubricate the housing and impeller. It is basically to prevent friction while the pump first primes. After that, the water is the lubricant. You could put it together wet with water, then run on the cuffs afterward. Or you could use a water-based "personal lubricant" on it (no I'm not kidding).

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

The impeller and housing look good. If water wasn't getting to it from the water intakes in the lower unit it would show some signs of burning most likely. Did the engine that this came off of have any earlier history of overheating? What I would do is this:
Remove the thermostat housing on that engine, check all the passages for blockage/old impeller parts or rust clogging. Clean out any clogging you find, re-assemble with a new thermostat, gasket and use OMC gasket sealer on the bolts. That will save you from breaking a bolt the next time LOL.
Next, with the impeller housing still off:
Hook up the water muff to your hose...slide them on the drive and hold them tight to the lower unit. Have some one turn on the water will you look for water spurting out the right side opening in the impeller mounting surface. If water spurts out, this verifies that the water intakes are not clogged and the water tube gaskets in side the drive are OK.
Now go up to the engine, disconnect the hose from the transom mount to the thermo housing on that engine. Stick a garden hose in the end of it firmly so it won't fly out when you turn on the water. Go to the back of the boat and look at the left side opening on the impeller mounting surface. Have some one turn on the water. Water should spurt out verifying that the hose from the transom mount to the PS cooler and from the cooler to the thermo housing is not blocked. Sometimes if an impeller fails, pieces can get lodged anywhere from the impeller to the thermostat housing.
If that's all good, reconnect that hose. Now disconnect one of the feed hoses for the exhaust manifolds at the thermo housing. Hook up your garden hose to this hose and have someone turn on the water. Water should fill the manifold, and come out the exhaust housing in the transom mount, you should hear it spill out on the driveway. Do the same with the other side. If either side fails you have a clog somewhere, it could be rusted riser/manifold passages or even a stuck exhaust flapper in the Y pipe.

These are low pressure high volume systems, they depend on a high volume of water to carry away the heat of both the engine and exhaust manifolds. Anything that causes a restriction in flow will cause over-heating of the engine, exhaust or both. You need to check through the whole system and eliminate possible causes.

Keep in mind that when the engine is cold and the thermostat is closed, the water coming in bypasses the engine completely and should be going right out the exhaust. This is why you should see water coming out the exhaust right away. When the thermostat opens, it allows hot water to leave the engine and go out the exhaust manifolds. At that point (about 15 min of running time on the hose) you will feel the exhausted water get warmer and you can tell by taking readings on the intake manifold with an IR temp gun that the 'stat is opening (the area right under the thermo housing will read about 155-150 and the big hose to the front circulating pump will get hot).

Good luck with it.....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

The impeller and housing look good.
I greased the impeller like they did in the video and put it back in - I did get water flowing out the exhaust. It was very little water at low RPM (800) and good flow at 1400 RPM. But, it seemed like the thermostat did not open - the temp went to maybe 170 and I shut it off. I removed the impeller and the grease had clogged the little water drain port in the cover - so I wiped off all the grease, and unplugged the cover drain, and put it back on. Then I pulled the hoses from the thermostat cover - no nasty stuff going on around the hose ports. Reconnected hoses and restarted motor and got water right away - I did throttle it up to 1200 RPM for a moment after starting it. The temp hit 160 *F and stayed there for 7 minutes then I shut it off. I'm ordering 2 new impeller kits and 2 thermostats and gaskets, and will get some new hoses as they have been on the boat for several years. They don't look real bad but there are a couple iffy areas on a couple hoses.

(From Lou's post) If water wasn't getting to it from the water intakes in the lower unit it would show some signs of burning most likely. Did the engine that this came off of have any earlier history of overheating? No

What I would do is this:Lou, This info below is what I was looking for - as I was wondering - how to check for blockages. I will go through these steps when I get the impellers and the thermostats (in a few days) and just get to know the boat better. THANK YOU! .

1. Remove the thermostat housing on that engine, check all the passages for blockage/old impeller parts or rust clogging. Clean out any clogging you find, re-assemble with a new thermostat, gasket and use OMC gasket sealer on the bolts. That will save you from breaking a bolt the next time LOL.

2. Next, with the impeller housing still off:
Hook up the water muff to your hose...slide them on the drive and hold them tight to the lower unit. Have some one turn on the water will you look for water spurting out the right side opening in the impeller mounting surface. If water spurts out, this verifies that the water intakes are not clogged and the water tube gaskets in side the drive are OK.

3. Now go up to the engine, disconnect the hose from the transom mount to the thermo housing on that engine. Stick a garden hose in the end of it firmly so it won't fly out when you turn on the water. Go to the back of the boat and look at the left side opening on the impeller mounting surface. Have some one turn on the water. Water should spurt out verifying that the hose from the transom mount to the PS cooler and from the cooler to the thermo housing is not blocked. Sometimes if an impeller fails, pieces can get lodged anywhere from the impeller to the thermostat housing.
If that's all good, reconnect that hose.

4. Now disconnect one of the feed hoses for the exhaust manifolds at the thermo housing. Hook up your garden hose to this hose and have someone turn on the water. Water should fill the manifold, and come out the exhaust housing in the transom mount, you should hear it spill out on the driveway. Do the same with the other side. If either side fails you have a clog somewhere, it could be rusted riser/manifold passages or even a stuck exhaust flapper in the Y pipe.

These are low pressure high volume systems, they depend on a high volume of water to carry away the heat of both the engine and exhaust manifolds. Anything that causes a restriction in flow will cause over-heating of the engine, exhaust or both. You need to check through the whole system and eliminate possible causes.

Keep in mind that when the engine is cold and the thermostat is closed, the water coming in bypasses the engine completely and should be going right out the exhaust. This is why you should see water coming out the exhaust right away. When the thermostat opens, it allows hot water to leave the engine and go out the exhaust manifolds. At that point (about 15 min of running time on the hose) you will feel the exhausted water get warmer and you can tell by taking readings on the intake manifold with an IR temp gun that the 'stat is opening (the area right under the thermo housing will read about 155-150 and the big hose to the front circulating pump will get hot).

Good luck with it.....

_________________
1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

2 last things to check your work...
1) before replacing the plastic cover over the impeller mount area, you can run the engine on the water hose and check that:
a) there is no water leaking out around the impeller housing, that is a sign that the gasket did not seal properly
b) that little nipple with the hose coming off of it has to be clear, pull off the hose when the engine is running, water should shoot out just like the tell tale on an outboard. This helps the impeller prime by letting air out of the impeller housing.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks for the last two tips. I wondered what the purpose of that hose was.

_________________
1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

When I was fighting with mine overheating last summer I checked all the passages for blocks and found none. I followed the steps that Lou said. But I still had the issue, I found that the powersteering cooler had little pieces of old impeller stuck in there. Once I got those cleaned out never had another issue. Other than getting the impeller housing to seat right this is a simple job to do, and that at best was only a little tough.

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1990 Four Winns Horizon 200
2005 GMC Sierra