www.iFourWinns.com

Okay - it's arrived. A HUGE boat for me - my other boat is a 19 ft flatbottom v-drive.

So now I have to get serious-er about towing. This thing is 9000lb including trailer.
I need a new hitch - from 5000lb max to 10,000 lb (class 4). The guy who transported it had a 1 ton F450 dually. I have an F250 extended cab 1996 Powerstroke diesel.

The ratings I found on my door jamb didn't have a "towing capacity" and I've found references to being able to tow from 9800 lbs on up to 12,000 lbs without a Weight distributing hitch. So, currently I'm pinging the ford truck enthusiast forum for details...

The transporter didn't have a weight distributing hitch...and there's no provision on the trailer for one (so the previous owner didn't use one). There are brakes on the trailer and my truck has the correct controller. I'm gonna have the trailer looked at - or fix some of the running lights myself. The bralke lights and rear tail light work. I put a big chuck of wood under trailer in front of the jack. It didn't look like it was safe on the wheel alone.

Any input on towing one of these big boys is appreciated. Oh yeah, pictures

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

Can't comment on towing it, but wow looks to be in realy nice shape for an 88! I always like those boats.

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1998 Baja Boss 252 7.4L MPI Bravo 1 (SOLD)
2007 FW H200SS 5.0GXI (Sold)
2004 Chevy Silverado 2500 Crew 6.0L (tow vehicle)
1991 FW 170 Freedom 4.3L (SOLD)

Beautiful boat!

I can imagine how you feel .... the first time I was standing next to the 245 Sundowner, on the trailer, with our current boat being a 20' bow rider ...... I thought ...... ummm ... that's kinda big! The first time I was next to a 268-Vista (like we have now), back in '03 or '04 ... I thought .... "No way, I can't tow that thing around like a 20' play boat!" .... but now I do just that.

The F250 will be fine for towing. Just have the 10K hitch installed, use a 10K ball mount & ball and you'll be fine.

Most surge brake applications do not use any weight distribution systems as the system works agains how the surge brakes work. However, there are a couple of new systems out there that are designed specifically for use with surge brakes. I don't remember which manufacturers are making them, but I've seen them in the boating mags.

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Gordon Arnold
New Hampshire

2003 268 Vista ..................................................................Prior: 97 245 Sundowner

I pull my 261 with Twin 472's with my 98 Tahoe 2wd 4door.
But, I have a triple axle trailer with electric brakes.
I am putting over load springs on just to keep the rear from dropping too much.
But I pulled it from Branson, MO to Wichita, KS with no problems. There are a couple
of good climbs in there also. Most of the time was at 75 plus in overdrive.

You won't have a problem pulling it, the problem will be in stopping it.
Surge brakes are great around town with stop and go, but make sure you give yourself
plenty of build up if your going down the road for a ways.
Nothing like jumping on an off ramp and you can't stop at the end..............

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1992 Baja 38 Special Twin 502 Mags

03 Stingray 3.0
88 261 Liberator 460 King Cobras
95 Bayliner 1850 3.0
77 Fiber Form 20ft 350/385hp
70 Wescraft 1800 SS 455 Jet

Lead, Follow, or get the Hell out of the Way!

Nice looking boat by the way! Where out west are you? We are thinking about taking ours to Mead again. We had our last one there for a year and was able to go 2 or 3 times a month for 2 to 3 days. That was a blast!

Here is the one I am getting ready right now.

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1992 Baja 38 Special Twin 502 Mags

03 Stingray 3.0
88 261 Liberator 460 King Cobras
95 Bayliner 1850 3.0
77 Fiber Form 20ft 350/385hp
70 Wescraft 1800 SS 455 Jet

Lead, Follow, or get the Hell out of the Way!

I'll have to check into that issue about distribution hitches and "surge brakes". Of course the sales guy at the shop I went to today didn't mention anything about that...and I bought the "12,000 lb wieght distribution hitch ($270), with stabilizer bar" and a shiney new 2 5/16 inch (with 1 inch shank - $10) hitch ball. After tax = $303.xx.

This supposedly converts my "Class 3 - 5,000 lb recevier hitch to a 12,000 lb capable receiver hitch...? There was a "long-time truck driver in the store too, and he was shocked that I told the salesman I was going to pull a 9,000 lb load. He said he uses the same hitch I ended up buying...and it makes all the difference in the world for a longer haul (at freeway speeds etc).

So, I'm still confused about all the hitch class stuff that can be "upgraded" by the distibution hitch because I haven't seen it in writing yet!

More updates to come.

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

We're in Desert Hills (North Phoenix). 30 minutes or so to Lake Pleasant.

Thanks for the nice comments aout the boat, ya-all. There's a few scratches, and some minor maintenance issues (one cleat is loose, trailer side markers broken, buddy bearing needs replaced - got zapped by a blown tire on the way here) and probably many more to be found. But, the drives and engines look like they were well taken care of.

I was telling my brother last night that if the boating thing takes hold and we really use it and all that, we may upgrade to a newer boat in a few years...and the wife said "you can give me this one then" ...

okay found more stuff about the weight distribution hitch...
"You'll want to read your owners manual and the tag on your receiver. As an example if your truck or SUV came with a Class III receiver and your tongue weight is 500#'s or over and or your trailer is 5000# or over, the truck manufacture and receiver hitch manufacture require a weight distributing hitch for those higher trailer ratings. This means is could cause warranty issues and insurance issues..." MrTruck

Now I need to find out about the surge brakes and wdh. I think I was reading that the wdh works with surge breaks, but that only one type of SWAY Control works with surge breaks...to be continued

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

Man I love those boats!

According to http://www.trailerlife.com/towratings/tr99_ford.cfm, the lowest capacity for the '99's was 13,400#. I don't know if there would be much difference between '96 and '99.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

230 Mike, thanks for the spec on the 1999. I think my 1996 is gonna do the job no-issues. I also found out that the trailer won't allow the weight distribution hitch to be installed. It needs to be able to mount up to the part of the trailer that has the "V" (that spreads out to the wheels on each side of the trailer)- and this trailer has that starting too far back. It has a straight rail for the first 6 or so feet after the hitch. I'm going t upgrade the truck receiver/hitch to a class 4 (10,000 lb) and I just bought the hitch and ball for that load.

Also, as stated earlier (Thanks M3eater) the surge brakes don't work too well with the WDH, with the exception of a REES SC model for surge brake equipped trailers...

My truck came with big heavy duty rubber air bags on the rear leaf springs and the install guy at the RV shop said that will level the load on the truck and that will ensure the truck will handle right (won't sag in the rear axle and lift at the front axle).

I'll go from there.

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

MAN that's a beautiful Lib!! (I hate calling them "LIB's")


You'll have no problems pulling it with the F250. You might consider better brakes if you plan to pull it long distances. I would do electric if it were me. (even electric over hydraulic disc http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm ... goryID=309 )

When you get it in the water, a video would sure be nice!!

(I'll want one then!!!)


Cheers,


Rick

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1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

That's a pretty neat concept about adapting the installed surge breaks for use with a standard controller.

As for using the surge brake with the weight distibution hitches (WDH)
This is a real good discussion on using and surge brakes and a WDH...he say's it's all dependant on doing the proper installation and initial adjustment...

http://boards.trailerboats.com/cgi-bin/trailerboats/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001437#000000

So I think I've bottomed out on the towing issue for now. On to the next battle - checking out the boat before going to the lake (check the fluids, run the engines...)
I've made a pretty good checklist already.

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1988 Four Winns 261 Liberator Twin 460s

Unless you got proof from the dealer that the drives have been removed and the alignment checked, you NEED to either have it done or do it yourself. Also, if the drive oil has not been drained and changed that should be done and the raw water pumps should either be check and or replaced. You can also check the drive bellows yoke and U-joints for water intrusion.

If the alignment is off, the couplers will be destroyed. The engines must removed to replace their respective coupler. (We'll just hope that doesn't happen )

Also, if the risers have not been pulled in the last few years and the gaskets replaced that should be done. You'll know you have a riser gasket leak if it hydrolocks when you try to start it immediately after shutting down.

If you have the oil changed in the drives, ensure that whom ever does it is going to do it IAW the OMC Service manual (NOT SELOC or Clymer manuals.....those are pretty good for starting your BBQ though).


If it's done wrong, you will be replacing/rebuilding BOTH drives.


Cheers,

Rick

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1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

Rick,
What is the alignment too? The coupler to the flywheel?

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1992 Baja 38 Special Twin 502 Mags

03 Stingray 3.0
88 261 Liberator 460 King Cobras
95 Bayliner 1850 3.0
77 Fiber Form 20ft 350/385hp
70 Wescraft 1800 SS 455 Jet

Lead, Follow, or get the Hell out of the Way!

It's basically aligning the the "drive shaft" in the gimbal bearing and coupler. The drive yoke is steel and the couplers inner splines are usually aluminum. Misalignment can quickly wear out the splines so badly it will be almost like drilling them out.

The following article describes it pretty good. Alignment on a Mercruiser is exactly the same as with a Cobra and you can use the same alignment tool for both.You can either make one if you have access to a lathe or you can buy them on ebay for around $50 or so.



http://www.sterndrives.com/engine_alignment.html

I made mine to the following dimensions




About 6 months ago I sold my 460 King Cobra flywheel housing and inner transom plate to a dealer in California. He had a customer who had a coupler literally disintegrate and destroy the flywheel housing and inner transom plate. He thought it was due to misalignment. I have never heard of a coupler doing that. They usually just spin the splines or rubber..... either way maintaining correct alignment will prevent it. The coupler on my previous boat lasted 39 years.

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1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

I would check all the things that Rick listed...on a new to you boat that is more than a few years old....the OE OMC manual is best but if you can't get one right away, go to:
http://www.crowleymarine.com look in product support....OMC Cobra drives...and you will see both the factory procedure for the gear oil change and also to R+R the drive. I'd build a stand to hold it, those things are heavy...I built one out of left over 2x6s and added height adjustible casters underneath...makes it a lot easier...and when you pull the drives....look for a smoothly turning gimble bearing...no water in the bellows....check for play in the u-joints...and clean out the area where the bellcrank is in the pivot housing...grease it up well (I pack that whole area with grease so if water gets in it doesn't freeze it up). When you install the gasket between the drive and pivot housing.....coat it REALLY WELL with OMC gasket sealer and that keeps the water out well. I put OMC triple guard grease in the pivot/bellcrank area and I also use it on the driveshaft splines....it's a great water proof grease (use it on prop shafts too) that will not wash out and holds up even to salt water. The alignment tool I bought at a local dealer for Sierra parts. Already paid for itself. And even if the engine is in alignment...since the gimble bearing can gimble or swivel a small amount...unless its lined up with the tool, getting the drive on can be a bear....get the tool!

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II