Installing new (to me) Head unit and Amp

LVChris · **Posted:** Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:31 am

Matt thanks for your response. I have a couple of questions though...

kd4pbs wrote:

-The amp requires a separate set of power wires ran straight from a high-current source such as the output of your battery selector, or straight to a battery. This will of course require large diameter cabling to handle the extra current that the amplifier demands. I'd say somewhere around #8 wire at least, depending on the length. Be sure that the positive lead is fused as close to the source as possible.

I simply used the wiring from the old radio. It looks to be #8 and has the built in 5 Amp fuse in the fuse block in the engine compartment. So I assumed I could run both the head and the amp off of this, when I hooked them up however the head powered on but the amp did not...which is why I thought it was bad.

kd4pbs wrote:

--The amp requires a separate switched "turn on" wire from the head unit. It will provide the amplifier with 12 volts at very low current to let the amp know it needs to power up. It is connected to the "remote" terminal on your amplifier. This is typically the blue/white wire coming out of your head unit.
.

Yes I connected this lead...also tried the amp with out it,

kd4pbs wrote:

--Your Sony Marine CDXM30 has "line level" outputs. These should be employed when hooking up to your amplifier. They are on RCA terminals on the head unit, and would require four of them to connect to the four RCA line level inputs on your Pyle (labeled as "LOW INPUT" on your amp, item #4).

Yes this is how I had it wired, but no power to the amp, so no sound.

kd4pbs wrote:

-As for your stereo powering up when you power on the battery selector, that's probably the default way of operation, and I don't know that you can do anything to fix that other than hooking the yellow wire on your head unit to a separate accessory switch and using that switch when you wish to turn on the stereo. Keep in mind that if the battery select switch removes power from the red wire on the stereo when it's switched off, you'll have to reset the clock, audio settings, and station presets every time you switch the power off.

That's ok I think, never listen to the radio anyhow.nor do I use the clock or change any of the settings. I would think any marine head unit would be this way since boats can sit for weeks without being started.

kd4pbs wrote:

-The radio cutting off when volume is increased is indicative of a supply that cannot source enough current. My guess is that there is a corroded connection to a fuse, a corroded wire, or a corroded Molex connector somewhere along the line. Hope this helps.

Yes I left the head in, and will be checking the wiring more the next time I get to bring her back home. But that seems very difficult looking at how the wiring is on a boat...no real easy access to the wires. This might be over my head, we'l see.

Thanks again.

C

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

You're welcome. Glad to help.
As for your questions, first, the wiring that is in your picture going to your noise filter is somewhere around #14 wire. This is nowhere near adequate for that amplifier. Plus, it is tasked to supply your stereo with it's power requirements as well. A 400 watt amp will require much more than 5 amps maximum. Even assuming close to 100% efficiency of the amplifier, you're talking about close to 30A at full tilt. That amplifier is nowhere close to 100% efficient. I'd plan on a source capable of at least 50A peak, 30A continuous.

Check the fuse in your amplifier. If you supply it with good +12V on both the + terminal, a good ground on the - terminal, and +12V on the REMOTE terminal, then it should power up. If not, the amplifier is not working properly. It shouldn't require much power to idle; your 5A supply should do, as long as you aren't dropping voltage along the way due to a corroded connector, fuse connection, or other reason. You'll need the voltmeter that was discussed earlier to figure that one out.

As far as losing memory, remember you'll also have to re-set the audio parameters every time (eg. bass, treble, or other equalizer settings).

There is at least wiring diagrams on Four Winn's site. Hopefully they have one for your boat.

Good luck!

LVChris · **Posted:** Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:39 pm

Thanks again Matt.

Two follow-up questions if you don't mind.

1. can I just bench test that amp up with a 110 to 12v power supply I have lying around to see if it powers on without any outputs? (I already checked the fuse with an ohmmeter and it's good)? If so do I also need to run power to the "remote" connector?

2. I still don't get why the head unit won't power 4 speakers? The speakers are 4 ohm, does that have something to do with it?

At this point would it be better to

a) replace the speakers and just have the head unit with no amp (that is assuming that will work)
b) replace the head unit with one that works without an amp
or
c) replace the amp if it's bad?

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

LVChris wrote:

Thanks again Matt.

You're welcome!

Quote:

Two follow-up questions if you don't mind.

1. can I just bench test that amp up with a 110 to 12v power supply I have lying around to see if it powers on without any outputs? (I already checked the fuse with an ohmmeter and it's good)? If so do I also need to run power to the "remote" connector?

Sure thing. Just make sure it's a decent regulated 12V power supply. I imagine 5 amps or so, give or take a few, would be all that would be required for the inrush current at turn-on. You'll indeed need to also run +12V to the REMOTE connection to cause the amplifier to power up. Think of it as the low-power "start" connection that doesn't power the amplifier directly, but tells the +12V lead on the main power connection to be applied to the amplifier circuitry internally.

Quote:

2. I still don't get why the head unit won't power 4 speakers? The speakers are 4 ohm, does that have something to do with it?

I thought it does power it, but cuts off at higher volume? If this is what you mean, it's due to resistance from a poor connection somewhere in the yellow power connection to the head unit. This causes the voltage to drop below the threshold that the head unit requires to be powered up, just as if the battery were dying and there was low voltage on the head unit's power supply. The only difference is that the low voltage is created by voltage drop in the power lead somewhere along the line due to a poor connection. A voltmeter (your ohmmeter should have one) would verify this as you watch the voltage on the yellow lead to the head unit as you crank 'er up.

Quote:

At this point would it be better to

a) replace the speakers and just have the head unit with no amp (that is assuming that will work)
b) replace the head unit with one that works without an amp
or
c) replace the amp if it's bad?

d) Figure out what your problems are to begin with, and go from there

LVChris · **Posted:** Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:43 pm

Yep, that all makes perfect sense, I'll get on it an report back.

LVChris · **Posted:** Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:46 pm

Just a quick little update...I hooked up the Amp to a 12 volt power supply...light came right on...glad I didn't throw it out, thanks again Matt.

Next step sems to be rewiring the power to the radio and running a separate line for the amp.

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

Very good. You're welcome! You'll be able to get her working right in no time.
I'm guessing the voltage drop is due to some of the molex connectors Four Winns loves to use in their boats. I've been systematically replacing the ones I find in bad shape with some weatherproof molex (MX150 series) connectors. It's a bit of a chore, but it's nice to know that I'll never have to deal with another electrical gremlin due to corroded connectors. I'm not sure how much your Vista has in common with the '02 models as far as electrical goes, but there are a couple connectors between the fuse panel and the radio on mine. Thankfully I haven't had issues with the radio on mine yet. The fuse panel though; that's another story... I did find a corroded connection at the radio fuse.

LVChris · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:36 pm

Looks like I may get back into this this weekend...if our weather holds.

First I have to hook all the water lines back up (de-winterize Vegas style) and then give her a nice bath.

But over the winter I bench tested the amp and it does power on so I have a power issue on the boat. I want to just replace the power wires and add a new one for the amp. Where can I get the wire? And how do I snake it through the hull? Lastly I have a fuse block with a 5 amp for the radio, and an empty slot for the forward bilge (guess the 238 didn't have one) I think a good solution would be to hijack the fwd bilge slot on the block and add another 5 amp there for the amp?

crossram · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:09 pm

you should be able to get it at most auto parts stores. some hardware stores carry it around
where i live. some times you can use the original wire to pull new back thru ,depending how it is
strapped in the harness. if it moves easy without much resistance you can solder together and
pull new wires thru
the volume is a power problem,like when a portable radio batteries are dying. I would also check the ground. amp does need a separate power supply

Xavid · **Posted:** Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:21 pm

I had no power to my amp resulting in no sound from the any speakers (or the sub) with the exception of the bow speakers - which worked fine. I soon ;earned that the bow speakers were not powered by the amp, which obviously was why they were fine. After a lot of troubleshooting, I decided the problem was a short or a break in the power wire somewhere between batt and amp. I also had discovered that when powering the amp with another source that everything worked perfectly. The amp should be powered from the battery and grounded to the battery from what I learned. Since I could not find the disconnect I just severed and capped the power wire and ran new, tinned marine 8 gauge wire (instead of the too thin for the distance 10 or 12 gauge that was factory installed). I also ran a new heavy gauge ground. I had to include a new in line fuse (40 amp). i did connect the power wire at the battery selector switch , with the fuse screwed down next to the battery selector switch. the ground ran to the neg terminal on one of the batts. It took a litlte work to snake these from a to be, but not bad and they were neatly anchored and precautions taken to decrease chafing. Works well. all done with the help of this forum. I will try to put a link to that thread.

Xavid · **Posted:** Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:26 pm

Here is the link. I wasnt sure how to do this, but I think this works. if the link is not a hyperlink then just highlight the address and copy/paste into address bar and enter.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8210#p78491

LVChris · **Posted:** Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:44 pm

Thanks,
I read that thread, and appreciate the help. I think I will just re-wire the entire thing. I was going to do it this weekend, but weather not looking good...only a high of 53 on Sunday. So might have to wait until net weekend.

LVChris · **Posted:** Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:15 am

Just to update the thread. I got the head unit working today! Long story short - I cut the power and ground wires and ran new 14 gauge wire. I couldn't go bigger because I wanted it to still go to the 5 amp fuse in the fuse block, I had to remove the block and re-use the connector and 14 gauge was as big as I could fit.

I have no plans to install the amp, the head unit at full blast distorts the hell-outa the speakers and is louder than I will ever want. I'm happy to have a working radio and will leave well enough alone....for now.....

Interesting fact: as I was getting frustrated with this today I decided at one point to throw in the towel and go to the pros. I called Fry's to see when they could schedule me, the answer was: "your boat is to big to fit in our bays so we can't do it until the weather warms up' in a couple of months since the mechanic would have to be outside" --- Temperature in Las Vegas today 61*

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

Glad you got it worked out!
Incidentally, it isn't the speakers distorting, it's the amplifier in the stereo distorting. Those built-in amps are typically only 25-30 watts peak (far less RMS). Distortion will kill a speaker in short order; one can feed 30 watts of distortion into a 40 watt speaker and blow it, versus 40 watts of clean audio into a 30 watt speaker and run all day... depending on the construction of the speaker at least. If you ever want to make it louder, at least you know what you need to do.

LVChris · **Posted:** Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:32 pm

Thanks kd4pbs, are you telling me that simply adding the amplifier (well it's no simple task) the sound quality would improve, not just the loudness?

The speakers aren't much, 2 round Boston's in the cabin and two round Alpines on the deck. With that said, when I bought the boat there were rca receptacles that were installed on the dash and under the L seat...never figured out if they were connected also a bass boost knob on the dash...looks like PO wanted that crap factory stereo to thump...or he took out a good stereo before he sold it to me.

Maybe someday I will look into it.

www.iFourWinns.com

Installing new (to me) Head unit and Amp

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