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I don't know!! I am confused know!! No I am not "trying" to make a piont. Now you did bring up Kenwood amps, but nothing about 2 to 4 volts. You did say the amp puts out more voltage, OK. I just did not understand were the "matrix" came into play. OK, I am lost again!!

Uh boy.... I don't want to fan the flames, but....

Is louder (more gain) really giving you better sound? Depends on the input stage and the quality of the signal and amplifier that you are driving, I would say. I understand completely that more input voltage will translate to a louder output through the circut and out to the speakers, but to me that doesn't really translate into better sound. If the quality of the signal is really good, and the purity of the amplification is equal, with clean cabling in between, then I would argue that the sound of a lower voltage signal will be "better" than a poor quality high voltage source.

LOL... your answer confused me.....

Yes, more volts = better sound?

Ok , look . . . I'm not getting into the whole silly debate audiophiles like to get into when anyone brings up stereos on boats like how it's pointless because you're not using tube amplifiers or something like that. I'm also not interested in discussing theater or concert hall quality or debating the quality of a CD versus a 128 bit mp3.

More volts = cleaner higher volumes. THAT is my point. The point i made in my very first post that was refuted for some reason. I realize more volts are not going to magically make music sound "different" or "better". But for most of us who add high end stereos to boats do so to get the most out of the music we are playing in terms of quality within the parameters of reasonableness but even more so get that sound quality to play at a higher volume to over come the surroundings, openness and noise. Not to mention to give the girls a place to dance.

So, having said that, I think my point is proven. More volts are going to give you more volume of whatever youre playing AND because of that it's going to sound better at those higher volumes then it would be at the same level with lower power.

With all the time you boys have spent bickering, someone could have stopped by my dock and helped me upgrade the d*** stereo.

Ok , look . . . I'm not getting into the whole silly debate audiophiles like to get into when anyone brings up stereos on boats like how it's pointless because you're not using tube amplifiers or something like that. I'm also not interested in discussing theater or concert hall quality or debating the quality of a CD versus a 128 bit mp3.

More volts = cleaner higher volumes. THAT is my point. The point i made in my very first post that was refuted for some reason. I realize more volts are not going to magically make music sound "different" or "better". But for most of us who add high end stereos to boats do so to get the most out of the music we are playing in terms of quality within the parameters of reasonableness but even more so get that sound quality to play at a higher volume to over come the surroundings, openness and noise. Not to mention to give the girls a place to dance.

So, having said that, I think my point is proven. More volts are going to give you more volume of whatever you're playing AND because of that it's going to sound better at those higher volumes then it would be at the same level with lower power.

Author:	Cincy Aquaholic [ Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
Paul I. wrote: I don't know!! I am confused know!! No I am not "trying" to make a piont. Now you did bring up Kenwood amps, but nothing about 2 to 4 volts. You did say the amp puts out more voltage, OK. I just did not understand were the "matrix" came into play. OK, I am lost again!! No I never mentioned kenwood "amps". I said the kenwood headunit had more power and by that i meant more VOLTS and thus would be louder. That was shot down by the subsequent posters. I then added that I think they are wrong because of the benefits of a line driver. A clarion HU only puts out 2 volts. If you compare that to the 4 volts from the kenwood using the same amps it will be louder and better sounding.

Author:	chrisvs [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
Uh boy.... I don't want to fan the flames, but.... Is louder (more gain) really giving you better sound? Depends on the input stage and the quality of the signal and amplifier that you are driving, I would say. I understand completely that more input voltage will translate to a louder output through the circut and out to the speakers, but to me that doesn't really translate into better sound. If the quality of the signal is really good, and the purity of the amplification is equal, with clean cabling in between, then I would argue that the sound of a lower voltage signal will be "better" than a poor quality high voltage source.

Author:	Paul I. [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
chrisvs wrote: Uh boy.... I don't want to fan the flames, but.... Is louder (more gain) really giving you better sound? Depends on the input stage and the quality of the signal and amplifier that you are driving, I would say. I understand completely that more input voltage will translate to a louder output through the circut and out to the speakers, but to me that doesn't really translate into better sound. If the quality of the signal is really good, and the purity of the amplification is equal, with clean cabling in between, then I would argue that the sound of a lower voltage signal will be "better" than a poor quality high voltage source. Yes, from the confused one!

Author:	chrisvs [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
LOL... your answer confused me..... Yes, more volts = better sound?

Author:	Cincy Aquaholic [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
With the type of system I'm talking about then yes more "power" means better sound. Quality speakers and subs and amps that are designed to handle it are a must. So, am I correct that the higher powered out put of the kenwood WILL in fact be louder despite the comments of the other posters. Would like to know if I'm correct or not and if so what the miscommunication was. Sorry for the hijack.

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Author:	chrisvs [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
It might be louder, yes. But it might not sound better. If the output range of the source is within the input range of the amp, then it will be louder. If it is above the input voltage is above the recomended range of the amp, it will introduce clipping and distortion.... not better sound. If the source is strong but poor and noisy, the system will be loud, but still sound like crap. Efficient but crap! That's all that I am getting at. More voltage (a louder signal) may translate into louder sound, but not always better sound. There are too many other variables that can have an effect on "better sound". In all likelyhood, my thinking on the setup you describe is this: Theoretically, your Kenwood has a volume range (when you turn the dial) from 1-40. If it had an line output of 2v, you would need to turn it up to 35 to achieve a certain Db level of "loundness". If you have a line output of 5V, you may now need to turn it up to 30 to achieve the same Db level of "loudness". The sound quality difference would most likely be unperceivable to most anyone who is listening to it. Edit: My apologies as well for dragging this thread away from its roots!

Author:	Paul I. [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
chrisvs wrote: LOL... your answer confused me..... Yes, more volts = better sound? NO, more volts do not = better sound. First off, you must start with something good. As in a wave, flac or MP3s at 320 bit rate, in that order. As the saying goes, junk in junk out. More power leads to more volume, not better sounding music. I love people with Ipods using a 128 bit or less MP3 files, claiming "it sounds great!."

Author:	Cincy Aquaholic [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
Ok , look . . . I'm not getting into the whole silly debate audiophiles like to get into when anyone brings up stereos on boats like how it's pointless because you're not using tube amplifiers or something like that. I'm also not interested in discussing theater or concert hall quality or debating the quality of a CD versus a 128 bit mp3. More volts = cleaner higher volumes. THAT is my point. The point i made in my very first post that was refuted for some reason. I realize more volts are not going to magically make music sound "different" or "better". But for most of us who add high end stereos to boats do so to get the most out of the music we are playing in terms of quality within the parameters of reasonableness but even more so get that sound quality to play at a higher volume to over come the surroundings, openness and noise. Not to mention to give the girls a place to dance. So, having said that, I think my point is proven. More volts are going to give you more volume of whatever youre playing AND because of that it's going to sound better at those higher volumes then it would be at the same level with lower power.

Author:	Misterbulbous [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
Cincy Aquaholic wrote: Ok , look . . . I'm not getting into the whole silly debate audiophiles like to get into when anyone brings up stereos on boats like how it's pointless because you're not using tube amplifiers or something like that. I'm also not interested in discussing theater or concert hall quality or debating the quality of a CD versus a 128 bit mp3. More volts = cleaner higher volumes. THAT is my point. The point i made in my very first post that was refuted for some reason. I realize more volts are not going to magically make music sound "different" or "better". But for most of us who add high end stereos to boats do so to get the most out of the music we are playing in terms of quality within the parameters of reasonableness but even more so get that sound quality to play at a higher volume to over come the surroundings, openness and noise. Not to mention to give the girls a place to dance. So, having said that, I think my point is proven. More volts are going to give you more volume of whatever youre playing AND because of that it's going to sound better at those higher volumes then it would be at the same level with lower power. Is this with Monster Cables or not? 'cause you know that makes a difference, right? ...just kidding. I agree with your points.

Author:	SundayDinner [ Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
With all the time you boys have spent bickering, someone could have stopped by my dock and helped me upgrade the d*** stereo.

Author:	Misterbulbous [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
SundayDinner wrote: With all the time you boys have spent bickering, someone could have stopped by my dock and helped me upgrade the d*** stereo. Down here in Lexington...no problem coming up there if you need help!

Author:	chrisvs [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
I'd head down your way too, but it's a bit of a drive.... I'm sticking on Paul I's side of the fence. Cincy, we'll have to agree to disagree on input voltage VS sound quality I guess. I'm not going to argue that it is always good to give the girls a place to dance! I just hope you wired with monster cable!

Author:	Paul I. [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
Cincy Aquaholic wrote: Ok , look . . . I'm not getting into the whole silly debate audiophiles like to get into when anyone brings up stereos on boats like how it's pointless because you're not using tube amplifiers or something like that. I'm also not interested in discussing theater or concert hall quality or debating the quality of a CD versus a 128 bit mp3. More volts = cleaner higher volumes. THAT is my point. The point i made in my very first post that was refuted for some reason. I realize more volts are not going to magically make music sound "different" or "better". But for most of us who add high end stereos to boats do so to get the most out of the music we are playing in terms of quality within the parameters of reasonableness but even more so get that sound quality to play at a higher volume to over come the surroundings, openness and noise. Not to mention to give the girls a place to dance. So, having said that, I think my point is proven. More volts are going to give you more volume of whatever you're playing AND because of that it's going to sound better at those higher volumes then it would be at the same level with lower power. Ok, so your point is proven using your own words. So, "it's going to sound better at those higher volumes" Ok your right, so if you have a song that the highs or low are not coming though at a lower volume, then we should turn the volume up and now the highs & low that I could not hear before, will be there. Ok, I will agree with you. I always thought that the quality/sound better would be be the same. Just the volumes/loudness would change. AND to sundaydinner, If you bring you'er boat up, I will do it for you and get you a slip for the day!!

Author:	chrisvs [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
Alright, I am going to beat this horse one more time. Sorry everyone, I couldn't resist! Lets compare this part of the stereo circuit to a water circuit. What Cincy is saying is that by increasing the volume (voltage) into the amplifier, it is going to be louder and sound better. So, If I have a pool of water that I want to pump out, And I turn up the rate that I am pumping the water out of the pool, am I making the water cleaner because I turn the pump up? I don't think so. I am pumping more water (getting more volume) but it isn't any cleaner (sounding better). Now Cincy, you're theory does have some merit. The louder input voltage, and increased ratio of the feeding signal (music) to audible hiss or distortion in the stereo system might "sound better", but it really isn't a better quality to the signal of music, it's just that you are hearing less of the systems inheirent noise at a given sound level. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.... I'll shut-up now.

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Author:	Cincy Aquaholic [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dead Radio
My last kick at this dead horse as well . . . I still think you guys are missing my point when you're debating me on the issue of the "better sound" with higher voltage. Again, I'm not saying it improves the quality of the sound. We agree you're going to get more volume with higher voltage. Ok, check. Now here's my point one last time . . . System A has 2 volts and say you're cranking it up to max volume. At some point its going to degrade the quality of that sound because of distortion and things. Let's say that happens at 90db. (I truly know nothing about measuring sound volume). Now, System B has 4 volts or better 9 with a line driver. Not only are you going to be able to play at a much higher volume, IN MY OPINION, when you're at the same level where system A cuts out and becomes distorted (i.e., 90 db as noted above) system B will still be sounding good. Thus BETTER sound at that level then compared to system A. Not better because its louder. But better because is not distorted at the higher volume. That is really all I'm saying. Ok, if that's not a valid point that's fine. But the girls sure seem to like the high volume . . ..