www.iFourWinns.com

I have the factory installed Kicker amp in the Sl242. The two channel amp that runs the swim platform speakers was blowing one of the amp fuses. I thought a shorted speaker might be causing this but I replaced them and tried putting a new fuse in, this time the amp started smoking and then I had a loud "pop". I am not seeing any crossed wires at the switch that turns the speakers on and I am worried about catching the boat on fire. Do amps go bad or does this sound like a short somewhere in the system?

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Askieffer
2009 SL242

I'd check all of your power connections before I blame the amp. If they are good, then look at the amp itself. Possible it could be both and that loose/poor connections shortened the life of the amp.

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

that and in-wire corrosion. The marine environment is hard on wiring. The vibration of the boat movement causes mechanical failure. All that slight movement causes things to crack or wear through. Doesn't take much for corrosion to get started. One way to get a rough idea is a voltage test. See what the battery reads at the posts with nothing connected. Then turn on only specific stuff, one at a time. Read the voltage at the battery and then at the device being turned on for the test. If there's more than a volt drop then you've potentially got a bad wire (positive OR the negative return). Could be as simple as a terminal gotten crusty wit corrosion, and a good cleaning might solve it. Or it could be a bad wire internally due to corrosion or break (these are a lot harder to chase down). For the amp I'd start by using brand new wire run directly from the breaker panel to it. Just loose, not installed (yet). See if that solves the problem. If not then TEMPORARILY try it with a direct run back to the battery (using an in-line fuse OF COURSE). If that solves it then you've got something bad between the battery and the breaker panel.\

Good luck, chasing down electrical gremlins is a pain in the ass.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Thanks, it also doesn't help that they packed ALL the wires for the entire boat in the same run. I think I'll rip all of it out and run all new wiring.

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Askieffer
2009 SL242

Well, it's up to you, but that might be a bigger job than you think. And then you open up the proverbial can of worms by possibly causing (new) issues with other devices. It's usually better to figure out exactly what's wrong FIRST and then come up with a plan.

A simple check and clean-up of all terminals in the circuit would be a much better place to start than a whole rip and replace job. It might be as trivial as corrosion on a grounding terminal somewhere. Just be sure to check BOTH the positive AND the ground circuits.

Bear in mind, when you replace a lot of wiring you're setting up for trouble down the road. Either for you, the mechanic you have doing work for you, or the next owner. Any time I see a boat (or any vehicle for that matter) that has had non-factory wiring changes it's a RED FLAG for something to avoid. Being able to diagnose and repair wiring circuits depends on being able to refer to the wire colors, connector pin numbering and a schematic. Unless you've got the dozen or or so wire colors on-hand it's hard to create all new wiring that will match up with factory schematics. When you deviate from factory wiring anyone else coming along at a later date won't be able to refer to the schematics as a guide. Resale value plummets when stuff like this is done. Not saying you wouldn't do quality work, just that there's more to it than just 'replace it all'.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Unfortunately amps can and do go bad. However, most of the time it is due to wiring or an impedance mismatch to cause a failure. Like everyone else has said, thoroughly check all connections. In your case a bad(shorted) speaker may have caused it or some bad connections like a bad ground. Amps are nothing but transistors, capacitors and coils. When an amp smokes and you hear a "pop" that means a capacitor is blown and the amp is now garage decor. Only option now is to just get another good quality amp with plenty of power. I would use current wiring for ease of installation providing it checks out good.

If you already have to buy a new amp, have the stereo company who does your install chase down the issue. They probably deal with this more and could find the issues quicker.

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Current: SL 222 2010 - AQUAVIT
Previous: 180 RX 1997 - BATTEN

Installed a new amp Saturday and the platform speakers are working now but I'm trying to figure out how to balance the volume on them with the other speakers. I also wish they came on without pushing the "transom speaker" button on the back of the boat.

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Askieffer
2009 SL242

I took the easy way out and installed the Alpine cda 118 head unit. Has seperate zones so you can crank the transom speakers for those who are tubing / wakeboarding and still have a conversation in the cabin area.

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1994 235 Sundowner w/351 Ford

They looked at it this week and are pretty sure because FourWinns wired the switch on the swim platform that turned the transom speakers on and off with speaker wire, there was a short or something causing low voltage.

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Askieffer
2009 SL242

If you heard it pop, you blew a capacitor inside the amp. If you know a good stereo shop they can fix it, or just buy a new one. Most likely it's all corroded inside. Marine rated or not that means nothing.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

It probably could have been fixed but I thought I'd mess with it and smoke came bellowing out. I ripped it out quick and just got a new one. At what point does a guy need to add a third battery for all the electronics on boats?

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Askieffer
2009 SL242

It all depends what you what for battery life when the engine is off. Simple math. Add up all the watts used when engine is off from the electronics, convert to amps, divide into how much amp hour the batteries are rated (if it's an 80 amp battery you have 40 useful) and that's how long u got.

The best thing you can do is use class D amps, and put a manual switch on the subwoofer so you can shut it down when the engine is off.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

When you say balance, you mean you are wanting the transom and in-boat speakers to play at the same volume level? Are the in-boats on an amp also? If so, adjust down the amp's gain dial on which ever speakers are playing the loudest. A 4 chnl amp will have 2 gain dials.

Do you know exactly how Four Winns is controlling those transom speakers? If so, we can come up with a work-around for this. Is the switch interrupting the amp's remote turn-on signal, or is the switch a DPDT thats interrupting one circuit to each speaker. All that needs to be done is remove the switch from the circuit and make a permanent connection to the wire(s) thats being opened and closed but the switch.

How many batteries, or Amp Hours (Ah) you need will be determined by how long you want to play the system while anchored. As noted, its just a calculation based on the current draw of the system and the Ah rating of the batteries you will be using. Upgrading to high efficient amps, like full-range Class-D and G/H, will improve the at rest play time. A typical Class-A/B amp will be 60% efficient at best. So 40% of the battery amps consumed is not being converted to watts for the speakers. Class-D and G/H can be 85% or better. This equals less current draw for the same wattage. If you are adding a battery to an existing house bank, its recommended to stay with the same type of battery, such as wet cell lead acid or AGM. Mixing is not a good idea. Its also a good idea to replace the existing house batteries when expanding the bank. As batteries are used and cycled down and recharged, they do not return what their original at-rest voltage. When a new battery is wired in parallel with an older battery, they will equalize. This brings down the new battery.

"Mess with it"? Stop. Fiberglass and other materials on the boat BURN quite easily. You put yourself and your investment in the boat at CONSIDERABLE risk when you start "messing" with stuff you just clearly do not understand. At least not by what's being posted here.

As has been pointed out, it's simple math. Electric equipment consumes wattage and you can only use as much as you have stored in batteries. All of which requires being set up properly in ways that get the most out of it without risking damage. As in, the proper kind of heavy gauge wire to properly carry the amperage, along with switches and connectors rated for it. All of which needs to be properly connected and secured. Also bear in mind that you should never run the batteries dead as this WILL damage them. So calculations for capacity need to take that into account.

In some situations it's helpful to add a limiter that detects the voltage and cuts off the circuit when it goes too low. This protects the batteries from being drained below the point that causes damage to them.

An important thing to realize about boating is there are limits when it comes to powering electric devices. You can only store just so much in batteries before their size and cost goes beyond what's practical. As in, there's not enough room (or the weight kills running performance) in the boat for running things beyond a certain length of time.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista