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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:23 pm 
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It's tiny

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Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:35 pm 
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What's the box on top the unit? Is that the control system?

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Jdpber wrote:
What's the box on top the unit? Is that the control system?


Yep. I'll eventually hide that behind the bulkhead. Not worried about cosmetics. My father will fix it all up. I'll mount the wired control above the radio and remote stays wherever. I might even turn it the other way.

Its like a dream come true. I'll never own a boat with out AC ever again. It took the boat from something fun to camp in when the weather cooperated to a second home away from home. The best part isn't the temp, its the fact the humidity is almost 30% lower inside!!!

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2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
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Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Ah. The unseen cost of ac. Just dropped 60 bucks on 20 ft of tinned 4 gauge wire and the correct ends to hook up the inverter.

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2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:29 pm 
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ric wrote:
Ah. The unseen cost of ac. Just dropped 60 bucks on 20 ft of tinned 4 gauge wire and the correct ends to hook up the inverter.


That seems to be the case for any type of boat project. When Installing my inverter I think I spent more on having 000 DC cables made, battery trays, and tinned A/C wire than I spent on the inverter.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Bliss36 wrote:
ric wrote:
Ah. The unseen cost of ac. Just dropped 60 bucks on 20 ft of tinned 4 gauge wire and the correct ends to hook up the inverter.


That seems to be the case for any type of boat project. When Installing my inverter I think I spent more on having 000 DC cables made, battery trays, and tinned A/C wire than I spent on the inverter.


And freaking nothing comes with mounting screws. I think my local ACE Hardware upgraded/expanded their stainless section just because of me. I don't regret spending the money on A/C, if anyone has questions on install I can write a really good breakdown. I ran a 100ft extension cord UNDER my dock the other night with a jon boat so I can have "shore power". You can't see it at all, hopefully I can get the summer out of it. It's nice to hop on the boat with the cabin at 70* when it's 90 out. It's also the only way I can charge the batteries until I figure out something better.

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2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
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1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:56 pm 
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Have you tested your run time for the A/C when running on the inverter yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Bliss36 wrote:
Have you tested your run time for the A/C when running on the inverter yet?


Batteries won't come in til tomorrow. I ran runtime tests on shore power. At night @ 70 degrees it runs around 8-10 minutes per hour. The A/C with inverter overhead draws 55 amps from the batteries. My battery bank is 225ah 6v's in series that are designed for deep discharge. So I figure I can get a solid 75% out of the system, or around 165 amps.

Non-stop runtime (if you want it in the 40's inside) = 3 hours
Night run time, 10 minutes per hour = 6 amps per hour = 27 hours of AC
Day run time? I've been watching it but never sat with a stopwatch yet. I'm waiting til it's in the 90s (only low 80s today). I figure double, or around 20 minutes per hour, or around 13 hours of AC. The Chaps are very thick white fiberglass and very thick carpet lining.

So in reality, a weekend excursion won't even require recharging BUT I am going to in the future install a 120 amp alternator with isolator so not only does the boat fast charge the battery bank, but still provides almost 15-20 amps of charging with the AC and engine running. I can run an isolator now, but with the factory 70a alternator if I accidently turn on the AC while the engine is running it will burn out the alternator.

On something like a Vista the runtime will of course be shorter, but you could easily run four 225ah batteries for 450 amps of power. Still weighs less than a generator, and four 6v batteries cost $300. That would run the A/C on a Vista for days, and you can charge off engine and shore power.

I'll eventually install an automatic transfer switch, onboard charger, and shore power connector to finish it all up "professionally" this fall. For me it's not important, but if I ever sell the boat or anyone wants to check it out I want to show a "complete" install done right. I don't want to tell someone they gotta reach around and unplug the AC from the inverter to plug into shore power with a shore power adapter :)

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:56 am 
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ric wrote:
Ah. The unseen cost of ac. Just dropped 60 bucks on 20 ft of tinned 4 gauge wire and the correct ends to hook up the inverter.



im so sorry for your pain.. i wish i could say that i know the feeling.. then again im one the lucky ones to have a "hook up" on marine wire.. sure has saved me a ton.. but quality has a cost...

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:13 am 
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Quote:
Batteries won't come in til tomorrow. I ran runtime tests on shore power. At night @ 70 degrees it runs around 8-10 minutes per hour. The A/C with inverter overhead draws 55 amps from the batteries. My battery bank is 225ah 6v's in series that are designed for deep discharge. So I figure I can get a solid 75% out of the system, or around 165 amps.


The 55 amp draw looks to be spot on:
Image
I'm not 100% sure if this is my a/c or coffee maker amp draw, but I know my 4 cups coffee maker draws more than our a/c unit! I've been meaning to do a run time test on mine for a long time. I'm running 4 GC2 batteries in series-parallel for a 440aH bank.I think the longest I've run my a/c off the inverter was 15 minutes, but I'll run the house fan all night at the beach. I'll double check the draw this weekend but I think it might be too cold (50's) to do an accurate a/c test.

Please excuse the crude mounting bracket...I've been meaning to fab a mounting plate for quite some time.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
ric wrote:
Batteries won't come in til tomorrow. I ran runtime tests on shore power. At night @ 70 degrees it runs around 8-10 minutes per hour. The A/C with inverter overhead draws 55 amps from the batteries. My battery bank is 225ah 6v's in series that are designed for deep discharge. So I figure I can get a solid 75% out of the system, or around 165 amps.

Non-stop runtime (if you want it in the 40's inside) = 3 hours
Night run time, 10 minutes per hour = 6 amps per hour = 27 hours of AC
Day run time? I've been watching it but never sat with a stopwatch yet. I'm waiting til it's in the 90s (only low 80s today). I figure double, or around 20 minutes per hour, or around 13 hours of AC. The Chaps are very thick white fiberglass and very thick carpet lining.

So in reality, a weekend excursion won't even require recharging BUT I am going to in the future install a 120 amp alternator with isolator so not only does the boat fast charge the battery bank, but still provides almost 15-20 amps of charging with the AC and engine running. I can run an isolator now, but with the factory 70a alternator if I accidently turn on the AC while the engine is running it will burn out the alternator.

Ric,
Your numbers sound about right, but I question two things:
. 1. You may be able to get closer to 100% of the Amp-Hour rating of the batteries, if the load is gradual. The AH rating is based on load spread over 20 hours, until the battery is drawn down to 10V (see the third link below)
. 2. I don't think your alternator would burn out if you accidently turn on your AC. My understanding is that the alternator just will not be able to put out more than 70a no matter what the demand is. For example, when you jump-start somebody elses car that has a dead battery, you might be trying to draw 150+ amps, but it does not ruin the alternator. I think if you ran the AC with the engine running, it would draw the system voltage down near 12, and there would be no charging of the battery, or perhaps system voltage would be 11.7 and there would still be some drain on the battery.
...however, demanding 100% of the alternator capacity might shorten it's life.

Here are some interesting links on the subject:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2475/understanding_alternator_current_output.aspx
http://www.answers.com/topic/amp-hour-ratings
http://books.google.com/books?id=Yn9F0RhJ0EkC&pg=PA461&lpg=PA461&dq=alternator+maximum+current+output&source=bl&ots=S9H6wJQvt7&sig=2qszr9h0cY4_ue3bx8kED5Eu53Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0OqLUe2nNISy8QSWyIFI&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=alternator%20maximum%20current%20output&f=false

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:03 pm 
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<sigh> is it wrong to have a generator and want an inverter, too? They just look so cool!

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:23 pm 
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jgreve75 wrote:
<sigh> is it wrong to have a generator and want an inverter, too? They just look so cool!

Not at all. :D
Why run a generator when all you need is to charge your cell phones, run a laptop computer, or other low power use?

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tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
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'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:31 pm 
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I am totally thinking about installing one as part of next season's mod list... (this year's dance card is full...lol)

I can think of plenty of times when it would be handy to have that silent power :D

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 Post subject: Re: Rick's Mods v3.0!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Silent power is the way to go.

I was reading I think you're right bout the alt. I'll order a isolator today. There's new ones out that has no voltage drop..

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2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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