www.iFourWinns.com

Dedicated to Current and Future Owners
It is currently Sun Jun 16, 2024 7:59 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:32 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 5667
Location: Austin, TX
How can a 2-way 6x9 produce a better frequency response when compared to a 2-way 6.5?

I'm guessing someone doesn't understand what 2-way means. Mid/highs only. If you're unsure of the frequency response, every speaker manufacturer posts them in their specs. You're not going to magically get bass out of a 2-way speaker. It doesn't have the driver to produce bass.

If you compare the Polk Audio DB651 vs. the DB691 they produce exactly the same frequency response.

db651 = Total Frequency Response 35Hz-22kHz
db691 = Total Frequency Response 35Hz-22kHz

No bass. At all.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:06 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:28 am
Posts: 1839
Location: South Carolina, USA
exactly that is mid bass.. and the OP asked for bass.. aka HE NEEDS a SUB.

_________________
Not Penny's Boat
Image
1993 190 Horizon 5.0L EFI
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11136
1977 14' CMF Skiff SOLD
2015 Emotion Stealth Angler 11


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:09 pm 
Offline
Dolphin

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:22 am
Posts: 78
Thanks for the banter, guys!

Here is some more info. When we're on the hook my present system sounds fine for what and where it is(Head, 40 RMS amp & (4) 6.5 speakers). However, underway I tend to only hear the two Alpines in the bow given their higher location and efficiency vs. the stock Clarions which are located under the helm. So, my feeling is that smiply by replacing the cheap stock speakers I'll get an improvement in sound quality and volume.

I understand that to get true bass I need to go the sub-woofer route but that would require more room than I have under the helm. I'm also concerned about draining my battery, which brings up the question of adding another battery (a subject that has been heavily discussed on this forum).

That said, I was going to just order the Polk DB651's (35-22khz & 92db) and be done with it when I realized that I could enlarge the wood hole and pop an Infinity 6X9 (36-20khz & 96db) in with not too much effort. The advantage I see with this speaker is the higher efficiency over the Polks but I would also give up frequency response. Overall, I'm mainly concerned with higher volume with low distortion.

I think several of you guys have made legitimate points, both pro and con. So, unless someone comes along with a different argument I think I'm going to stay with my current set-up and just replace the stocks with the Polk 6.5's. Then, if it doesn't seem to give me the volume while underway, I can either re-evaluate my amp or go the 6X9 route.

Some great discussion either way...

_________________
2006 H190 4.3L
2009 GMC Acadia
Michigan
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:14 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 1303
Location: Melbourne, Australia
You guys know that very few sound recordings are under 35Hz?!
Most ported subwoofer enclosures (concert style stacks included) are usually ported to around 40Hz!
This is an open air marine environment & I still stand by my original response.
Fit the 6x9's. If you're still not happy with the midbass, fit a subwoofer for increased frequency extension.

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:18 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am
Posts: 350
Just read it for the third time and don't see where the OP asked for "bass". I must be looking at a different version of this thread than you. :?
A 2 way 6" x 9" can reproduce a wider frequency range than a 2 way 6.5" because it has a larger cone, therefore can move more air, therefore can reproduce lower frequencies, all things being the same. There's a reason we use larger drivers to reproduce lower frequencies. If you're under the assumption that a smaller cone is capable of reproducing a lower range of frequencies than a larger cone, then please, enlighten us as to the physics behind your theory.

As a side note, usje, take the manufacturers rated frequency response statements with a grain of salt. There is no market standard imposed for their ratings, and aside from figures such as sensitivity (usually rated when driven at a certain frequency with one watt at one meter), each manufacturer is free to test them as they see fit. It's (usually) fine to compare the same manufacturer's specs among their own products, but they can and do deviate greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer due not only to design but due to different methods of testing.
Each speaker will also perform differently depending on what it's mounted in and what is around it. Some speakers sound better when on-axis, but sound terrible off-axis. Others have very wide dispersion patterns but give up sensitivity to achieve this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:02 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 1303
Location: Melbourne, Australia
kd4pbs wrote:
A 2 way 6" x 9" can reproduce a wider frequency range than a 2 way 6.5" because it has a larger cone, therefore can move more air, therefore can reproduce lower frequencies, all things being the same. There's a reason we use larger drivers to reproduce lower frequencies. If you're under the assumption that a smaller cone is capable of reproducing a lower range of frequencies than a larger cone, then please, enlighten us as to the physics behind your theory.


Amen, brother! :lol: :roll:

My mate recently built a competition car that was burping high 140db's with 4x ported 6x9's at 46Hz.
Most burps with 10/ 12 & 15" woofers are also in the 40Hz range, so explain that?! :P

p.s. This sounds like another "The internet said this" scenario... :roll:

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:35 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 5667
Location: Austin, TX
My last boat had a Polk DB1040 in a 1.2sqft sealed box driven by a Cerwin Vega 300w RMS class D amp.

It created ripples around the boat when anchored when turned up. Cheaper and better than any of those marine bazooka craps. I total investment was under $200.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:21 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am
Posts: 350
That's the cool thing about today's autosound. Back when I did the IASCA competitions in my '72 Datsun 240z (late-80s), I had well over $3000 invested in the stereo system; $600 for a simple single DIN CD player/tuner, $300 for an active crossover, $400 for an equalizer, $1200 in amplifiers, $1400 in speakers, and probably $50 plus a good chunk of change in supplies and my own labor for all the custom cabinet work for the subs and custom mounts. All this for a measly 131 dB SPL. Sounded amazing though, for what was available back then. Very few people were into high end autosound, and these were the days before the interwebs and competitive shopping.
Now any ghetto thug can illegally trade his food stamps for a few hunnerd and get a system for his leased Acura or BMW, and have money left over for some dubs with spinners.
I've got half of that invested in the system in the Vista, and indeed there are ripples that emanate from the boat visible in calm water. The sound quality is as good as what I had in the z, and I've got to fill a much larger area. It also reminds me of every loose panel in the boat. It sure is hard to seal up some of these structures from vibration!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:26 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:28 am
Posts: 1839
Location: South Carolina, USA
usje141 wrote:
Thanks for the banter, guys!

Here is some more info. When we're on the hook my present system sounds fine for what and where it is(Head, 40 RMS amp & (4) 6.5 speakers). However, underway I tend to only hear the two Alpines in the bow given their higher location and efficiency vs. the stock Clarions which are located under the helm. So, my feeling is that smiply by replacing the cheap stock speakers I'll get an improvement in sound quality and volume.

Some great discussion either way...


simply going to a 6x9 or even just the Polks will not drastically increase your DB levels like you are needing.. you will need an amp..

As for batteries i can tell you this. Look at my stereo in my thread.. I can run at 75% volume on the hook blasting the beach for over 6hrs and not have any voltage drop.. 6.5hrs is the longest continuous run to date that i have at constant volume.. I have 2 group 29 deeps in parallel, dedicated to the Stereo and a single G29 for the starter that is isolated from the "house" batteries..

If you go to a "house" battery dual setup and want even longer play time you can go to power cells. These will yield a much longer play for you BUT they are 2x the $ over conventional deep cycles.

_________________
Not Penny's Boat
Image
1993 190 Horizon 5.0L EFI
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11136
1977 14' CMF Skiff SOLD
2015 Emotion Stealth Angler 11


Last edited by Jdpber on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:32 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am
Posts: 350
Jdpber wrote:
As for batteries i can tell you this. Look at my stereo in my thread.. I can run at 75% volume on the hook blasting the beach for over 6hrs and not have any voltage drop.. 6.5hrs is the longest continuous run to date that i have at constant volume.. I have 2 group 29 deeps in series, dedicated to the Stereo and a single G29 for the starter that is isolated from the "house" batteries..

Cool! I looked for some 24V amplifiers when I installed the stereo in my boat. I would have done anything to have been able to get away with smaller cables to the amps which are mounted 20' away from the battery. Where'd you find those suckers?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:16 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:28 am
Posts: 1839
Location: South Carolina, USA
I got my cable for free from my buddy He simply pulled the 0ga Marine fire proof OFC free cable off the spool and handed it to me.

as for the batteries i had advanced auto order them. and the starter battery i got at walmart.

_________________
Not Penny's Boat
Image
1993 190 Horizon 5.0L EFI
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11136
1977 14' CMF Skiff SOLD
2015 Emotion Stealth Angler 11


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:22 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 5667
Location: Austin, TX
Stereo run time is simple math, just post what head unit and amps you're going to run and I can get you a runtime calculation.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:14 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am
Posts: 350
Jdpber wrote:
I got my cable for free from my buddy He simply pulled the 0ga Marine fire proof OFC free cable off the spool and handed it to me.

as for the batteries i had advanced auto order them. and the starter battery i got at walmart.


No, I mean where did you get the amplifiers that run on 24 volts?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:03 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:28 am
Posts: 1839
Location: South Carolina, USA
Mother trucking.. YEP thats a mistake on my part. PARALLEL 12vs making 12v.. the past week i have been working with 6v cells on golf cart in series and have probably said series 50x in the past week.. Total mistake on my part looking back totally missed that and hope that i did not miss inform any one..

_________________
Not Penny's Boat
Image
1993 190 Horizon 5.0L EFI
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11136
1977 14' CMF Skiff SOLD
2015 Emotion Stealth Angler 11


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:06 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 5667
Location: Austin, TX
I have a 12v 240aH two 6v golf cart cell bank in my boat "house" system. Power for days
(literally)

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group