www.iFourWinns.com

310's are a heck of alot more popular than cuddy cabins or outboards. I can say that for sure.

310's are made for coastal boating or large lakes...

The 310 is a gorgeous boat with the performance to back it up. It's definitely not made for trailering (although people do). For those who live on waterfront and do alot of entertaining, but don't want a party barge - this is a great alternative.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

I think the H310 is a sweet boat. I don't have any idea what the market would be for that big of a bowrider and would hope they have their marketing folks dialed in to expected demand.

That said, it just seems that the volume would be very low that it would make me question the design/production costs of that boat.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

I think in 10 years you'll have used ones available and people will go "what the hell is that, modern day tri-hull?"

Conventional boat lines. That's what sells. I live the world of new and innovative at my job. If I was a US boat manufacturer like Four Winns in a very competitive market, I would focus on high quality and very lean manufacturing.

You do notice that Genmar is going through Chapter 11 so they need to be conservative.

"SL" = stupid looking

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

I will strongly disagree. You are entitled to your opinion, but you obviously are not up to speed with today's designs and industry trends. To the untrained eye, the SL series may appear to look similar to a tri-hull, but in fact it is a split chine hull design, the "sponsons" never actually touch the water except in a very sharp turn, in a tri-hull they are in contact with the water constantly. The SL hull design allows the deck to meet the hull at its widest point and remain there all the way up the gunwales. Thus creating more useable room and floor space throughout the boats.

Other builder also do not agree with "Conventional boat lines, that's what sells" as they have added similar style boats to their line up's as well. Why? Because that is what people want, and they are selling, and will continue to sell.
Chap's new 204 Extreme

Rinker's new 190 MTX

And 210MTX


Consider these as crossover boats, Part deckboat, part bowrider, with the best features of both worlds. And just like the auto industry is adding more and more crossover vehicles to their offerings, so shall the boat builders. In 10 years you will see many of these type boats on the water, as you will also see many crossover vehicles still on the road. I will agree that the design is not for everybody, but sales numbers indicate the design is very popular, and growing.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

When I see the SL's, they look like a design take-off of the batmobile. I've been around boats long enough to see these as being a fad. No question there styling is polarizing. As a boat consumer, I'll never part with my money to buy one.

The analogy between cars and boats is not quite accurate. Many "hybrid" vehicles are just mini versions from the same make. FourRunner/Rav 4, Pilot/CRV.

In ten years, V-hull bowriders will still be the mainstay. The "SL" type, square front boats, will be passe and boat manufacturers will have moved on to some other type of niche design.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

Enjoy your bowrider into the coming decades.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I remember boat shows in my younger years where 'cuddy cabins' were the future of boating. Performance and the overnight ability all in one... With the biggest benefit being a porta potti.

What happened to cuddy cabins? Bowriders got refined with porta potti's. cuddy's are all but gone from the market (much to the dismay of a few folks on the board)

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

What I find funny is a lot of boat owners want the porti-potti but then don't want anyone to use it.

Unless I had the vacu-flush type, I'll pass. We're on a lake so we can be at a dock in 15 minutes from the sandbars we frequent.

Someday a small cruiser will be ours, right now it's not economically feasible. Within 1.5 years I will be slammed with tuition bills.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

The head is the main reason we've been able to continue boating with kids. I'm all for them using it, but then I wouldn't have it without the pumpout either. And every lake we use has pumpout facilities.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

[quote="cougarcruiser"]310's are a heck of alot more popular than cuddy cabins or outboards. I can say that for sure.

310's are made for coastal boating or large lakes...

I find that interesting in that we see no large bowriders around here...not even from builders that have made them for years such as Formula...you do see some larger cuddys but more mid size I/O powered crusiers...still unfortunately FW's line up does not match up with my preference in boats at this point...I cannot see buying another high maintenance bowrider even if larger because of the risk in rough water...plus the design is not made for easy engine maintenance...anyone who buys one of these is going wind up cursing the molded in fiberglass around the engine...the crusiers in mid to larger size do have a fairly open engine room...but as I have said maintaining I/Os for salt water slipped boats is problematical due to the growth problem...
FW needs to get out of fantasy land and come out with a practical and easy to maintain line of salt water friendly boats....like dual consoles...walk arounds and center consoles...with outboards...if you think about it one of the main reasons people get out of boating is the cost of maintenance....people can deal with the initial cost of the boat but getting killed on maintenance is what drives them away.....and building ONLY high maintenance sterndrives is limiting their market...

I went to their website and counted 14 overlapping models of bowriders and 3 models in the SL series....this is way too much overlap of basically the same designs which runs up their production cost and does NOT bring in more buyers....cut out at least 1/2 of the bowriders and replace that with a dual console center console and walk around in the same size range...about 20' and they would sell well with a choice of outboards unlike Brunswick boats that only give you Merc outboards...

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Four Winns tried to offer a salt water worthy boat back in the late 80s early 90s. The Quest line. I don't think they sold very many.

Based on the few facts available Genmar had moved the Wellcraft "headquarters" to the Four Winns Cadillac, MI facility. Wellcraft makes an excellent line of salt water worthy boats.

Of course with the Genmar factor it is unclear what will happen in the future.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Everybody has thier own opinions.

I don't think an outboard hull design will sell. Why? Where's the swim platform for families? Do wives like that ugly motor sticking out? Nope. Watersports? HA! - yeah, right.

Building a center console? Four Winns in the fishing boat world? That's a joke right? That market is worse than recreational boats right now.

Simplifying their lineup? Until the introduction of the SL line, there was very little overlap. Maybe with the cuddy cabins, but those are now gone because sales fell off. They didn't stop making them because they wanted to. They stopped selling them because nobody was buying them. The majority of buyers don't want a cuddy. They go bowrider or cruiser.

Now, buyers have choices. They are building more on demand than anything - so it's not like they will be flooding the market with inventories. Dealers have the ability to choose which boats sell for them.... problem solved.

As for engine access... I did my own maintenance on my H240 and found access to be fantastic. I didn't have any issues. I know many people on the boards do their own maintenance -- and I don't see alot of posts containing concern about accessibility. Other than your own opinion - I'd love to see some good, solid examples of widespread issue with engine or systems accessibility.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

On the 240 yes I can see the engine compartment is wide enough to get at most things but on the smaller ones I'd love to see someone try to replace the starter (very common on older I/Os) and get at anything on the rear of the engine.....go look at a 200 with the sunsport seating...then tell me how you'd get your hand in back of the steering system to drain the power steering cooler....
Here the predominant type of smaller boat is not an I/O bowrider...it's center consoles...walkarounds and some dual consoles... the typoes of boats that FW makes now do not sell well here at all.....people in salt water regions do not want a high maintenance boat with a lot of nice seating that has to be maintained and I/O only power plants...as much as I like the FW I have had if you look around here...they are in the minority...and I bet if you looked in costal regions all along the east coast you will see the same thing....I know that Wellcraft makes a great line of salt water boats and so does Seaswirl but as noted after the re-organization from the bankruptcy who knows what will happen...so if FW does not diversify their line somewhat...they are basically ignoring the entire coastal region from Maine to the Gulf Coast where you will find mostly OBs on smaller boats and straight inboards on bigger ones....

And one more point....swim platforms are nice....but an outboard that is designed from the start to be in a salt water environment...is a lot nicer...no bellows for barnacles to grow in and cause leaks...no trim lines in the water that the same thing happens to...and no fumes to worry about in the engine compartment....outboard dual consoles are fine with water sports people here use them all the time...

When all I/Os start coming with cat converters...and the price of some engine packages goes up by 2000-3000 per boat...then you will see more outboards on smaller boats because the price difference will be not so much an issue...

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II